Cold Open And What Went Wrong

SPEAKER_00 0:35

In today's episode, we're going behind the scenes of one writer's journey, and this one starts with a problem I know a lot of writers can relate to. My guest name is Lindsay Sephera, and before she started writing her first draft, she did what she thought she was supposed to do. She created a full scene-by-scalline. But then somewhere around 25,000 words into her first draft, she got completely stuck. She didn't really know how the events of her story connected anymore, where the story was going to go next, or how she was ever going to turn what she'd written into a finished novel. And so in this episode, you're going to hear us dig into why Lindsay's first outline didn't work, what was actually keeping her stuck, and how she learned a new way of outlining that made drafting a whole lot easier, and eventually helped her finish her first draft, which is now her published debut novel called Arrow Knight's Origins. We're also going to talk about what it was like to finally finish that draft, what happened when she took her story to beta readers and a developmental editor, as well as why she regrets the order in which she got their feedback, plus what she plans to do differently next time, and so much more. So if you have ever created an outline and still found yourself getting stuck in your first draft, and maybe even feeling a little bit worried that getting stuck means you're not capable of finishing your novel, then this episode is for you. I'm not gonna spoil the whole thing for you, so let's just dive right into my conversation with Lindsay Sephora. Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy Podcast. My name is Savannah Gilbo, and I'm here to help you write a story that works. I want to prove to you that writing a novel doesn't have to be overwhelming. So each week I'll bring you a brand new episode with simple, actionable, and step-by-step strategies that you can implement in your writing right away. So whether you're brand new to writing or more of a seasoned author looking to improve your craft, this podcast is for you. So pick up a pen and let's get started. Hi, Lindsay. Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy Podcast. I'm so excited to have you here today. Oh my gosh. I'm very excited

Meet Lindsay And Her Debut

SPEAKER_00 2:38

to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Sure, and we're celebrating a very important special day. Tell everyone what we're celebrating.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

I just released about a week ago now, well, to this day of recording a week ago, on July 23rd, I released my debut fiction novel, which is a superhero fiction novel, the beginning of a superhero fiction series, and it has been a long time coming, been working really hard on it, and Notes Novel helped me out with it and everything too. And it's wild. It's the heart and soul project, honestly. So to be here at this phase of it finally being a book baby that's out and everything is I'm still getting over it to this day.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Yeah, I always hear people say, like the week that their book went out, they kind of like dissociate a little bit, and then like three months later on a hit, I'm like, I did that. The book is out, it's cool. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Yeah, I um I took the week off right after just to try to like chill and relax because I have had yet to do so this year whatsoever. And it's exactly as you said, once I actually sat down and just stopped doing everything, I was like, Oh, this is out, this is a thing now.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Yeah, I love that. So, okay, so we'll link to your book and the description, all that in the show notes. But back up and tell people kind of who you are, what you do. I know you have a lot of creative projects and things going on, so tell us about that. I do.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

So I'm Lindsay. I'm an author and poet, primarily in sci-fi and fantasy, especially with just the superhero fiction that came out. I also stream writing sprints, Pomodoro sprints and everything, on Twitch. So usually co-working streams, but it's a nice fun space for creatives to come in and say hi and everything. And we work on projects together during that time. So I'm a mix of things. I am working on the superhero fiction series Arrow Nights, the Aero Knight saga. I am also, as I said, a poet. So I am working on poetry books about once a year, too. And I'm also in progress of a rom-com audio drama at the same time. So I am just having fun with it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

You're busy busy. Yes. And with your permission, we will link to your streaming so people can join you if they want to. Of course. Yes. Yeah. We love friends. Love friends, yeah. Okay, so back us all the way up to like where where did this idea come from? When did you start writing it? Or like, you know, I know you outlined, so talk to us about like the before I met you, what was going on. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

So at the very, very, very beginning, the characters and the concept of superhero characters and a story started to bud when I was not even 10 years old yet. I was heavily inspired by some Batman movie that came out. I honestly keep forgetting which one it is. And that was when one

A Superhero Idea Since Childhood

SPEAKER_01 5:30

of the characters first came to be in my head. And I grew a love of writing over time. And it was in late middle school, early high school where I constantly wrote on my notebooks instead of taking classes or taking notes in classes and everything. And it was actually like sophomore year of high school where I wrote the chapter one that's now in this book that's out. Wow. It's very different now than it was back then. Then I put it away because life and societal and familial influence told me, hey, no, pick something else, then try to write or be an author or whatever, you know, same old, same old. And it wasn't until I think November 2022 was when I officially went, you know what? My biggest regret in life would be not writing this, this series, a book, or at least trying. So I'm going to do it, which ended up being like a blessing in disguise at the same time because I had lost my job, my contract job around that time, too. And bad spot, but yeah, long story short, this was the hey, now is your sign, now is your moment to get going into it. And I had around that time already heard of you, Savannah, and notes to novel and everything. I read so much of your blog post, was already heavily listening to the podcast, like even during work and whatnot, just getting inspiration. And at first I wanted to join, but then I was like, well, let's see how far I can get by myself. Cause I think I've got an idea for an outline, and we'll see what happens. Spoiler, I did not.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Well, and I know the outline is one of the big aha's for you. So let's talk about like why that first outline didn't work because I know probably most people listening are gonna be like, that's my outline. So tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Yeah, it started on Google Spreadsheets because I was I was like, Well, I can at least create some sort of organizational method of an outline and I can do it that way. But the primary problem was that the way I was plotting was that it was, okay, here's chapter one. What happens in chapter one? In this case, my one main character, Kat, has lost her memories. She's yelling at the

The Outline That Caused Stuck

SPEAKER_01 7:48

statue of her presumed dead best friend because this presumed dead best friend is the one with the answers of what happened to what caused her to lose her memories from a mission gone wrong and everything, and she's angry and whatnot. And it's like, okay, there's that event. And then it was like chapter two is now this event, chapter three is now just this event, and it's like a five-word phrase of like so-and-so goes to the park, so-and-so has this fight and everything. And I got 25,000 words in, and I was like, I have no idea what I'm doing. Nothing, I don't know how anything is potentially connecting with each other. I feel like I'm just kind of braindumping writing, but nothing feels right. And I have mystery and adventure and three different subplots going on in this book, too. So I was like, I don't know what I'm doing here.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

And that I find is very common. Like either you'll kind of get around 20,000, 30,000 words and you'll just completely run out of steam, or you get to that point and you start looking back and you're like, I know what a good story is, and this isn't quite there yet. You know? Yeah. And so then you're like, Do I start over or do I give up? Like, what do I do? So you hit that point, and then what happened?

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Luckily enough, Notes to Novel was starting in about a month right after I hit that point. So I was like, all right, it's time to sign up now. Yeah, and that's when we met.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yes, yes, and I think it was in like June of 2023-ish. Yes. Yeah. So I like giving time frames because everyone likes to know like how long exactly did things take. So yeah, we're outlining, then you join Notes to Novel, and then in there, so not everyone listening is gonna know what we did in the course, but what we do is we go through like genre and theme first. And I know theme was another one of your big ahas. So I want to talk about that, and then eventually we'll get back to what your outline looked like once it started working. Okay. Talk to me about theme because you had an aha with your theme, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Yes. It was funny, but also enlightening at the same time. It stuck with me ever since I think one of the first lessons in the course, where it was really digging deep and getting into knowing why you write. And most of my aha moments were from that and just kind of kept going as I kept going through the course. But to this day, what I had found out in terms of why I write, not just for myself, but for other people, why

Finding Theme And A Real Why

SPEAKER_01 10:12

I'm writing the story and everything, what message specifically I want to get out with what I write, it really hit me that that is what's the driving motivation behind everything we are doing. I mean, yes, we all would love to make money off of our book selling and everything, but that's not going to really be the core motivation when you are in your fifth editing pass wondering why you even got here in the first place and if it's worth to keep going and everything. And so what that part of the course helped me realize was between this book and series and my poetry as well, is that there is this constant theme of or message of me wanting people to know that they can follow their hearts and true desires and everything, you know, love you for you. And it's that true happiness and fulfillment in yourself that matters most than how you are influenced outside or what the outside tells you to do, regardless, or instead. And I have a sticky note of that why on my monitor, like to this day, it's been there since that lesson of notes to novel. And yeah, every time things get a little hard, I remember that I am writing because I want to share the message that happiness comes from valuing your true self and desires. And that's kind of how I started writing too, because I started to value myself and what I wanted to do more. And quite frankly, I don't want people to go through the same stuff that I did in life in the past decade and a half.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

So that's where it all comes from. I love that. It's so beautiful. I feel like we could just end the episode there, Keith, so perfect, but whoa. But I do think it's very interesting hearing you say that because I could imagine how that shows up in your rom-com, in your poetry, in your superhero stuff. It's like different flavors of the same thing that is so important to you. So exactly super cool. And then I remember you talking about how like you were able to kind of translate that into your characters too. Yes. Talk about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

All right. I have dual protagonists, and then I do technically have a main character who was he started as a supporting and then got real main character energy over time and became a little bigger than I expected. But between the three of them, they all take the core message or theme of the book and kind of have their own lesson of it, if that makes sense. So, for example, the book talks a lot about self-discovery and acceptance of like the tragedy that happened and second chances, especially as an adult. That's the key thing here. Like the point the book makes is that no matter how old you are, you can always have a second chance for yourself. And so that comes out with one character who has to learn to accept her demons from her whole life, since childhood and everything. So accepting the trauma and trying to grow from that. Another person has to rediscover herself. This is the one who I had said in chapter one had lost her memories, and so she's facing that because she feels not like herself and utterly useless as a person because of it. But so she has to figure out how to grow and to heal from that because not everyone, unfortunately, can regain memories after that kind of loss and whatnot. And then the third person is more like forgiveness of what happened because he's very guilt-ridden of everything that happened and has wanted to make it all right, but sometimes that's just not in the cards, and you just ultimately again have to let yourself take the second chance to get back up and go. So, yeah, it's all different layers of like the same core message.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

I love that because you can also see the other side of it is once they learn the lesson, then they can live for themselves and be happy and all that. Yes. And I feel like when people are listening, they're gonna be like, oh, like that sounds really cohesive. That's how you do it, that's how you make a story cohesive.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Yeah, that is how you do it. Yes, and it's why my first outline was terrible.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Okay, so let's go back to talking about that because basically then what we do in the course is we go through character, we go through setting, point of view, and all that. Then we really get into outlining and we talk about like genre frameworks and things like that. But tell us kind of the difference of the outline before where you ran out of steam around 20,000 words, and then the outline that you actually could write from.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

So the biggest change was knowing how the scenes and or chapters themselves were a consistent cause and effect of each other until you reached the end. And between that and something else I had read where it was like the answer to like at the end of every scene or every chapter of whether or not the character has met their goal, the answer should almost always be no, because if it's yes, then the story's over. So that and

Cause And Effect Scene Outlining

SPEAKER_01 15:14

then the five commandments of scene writing really, really hit that for me of constantly make it full of conflict or tension, and this happened, so now what? Well, now they hit this obstacle. Okay, so they do this to overcome that obstacle, but now there's this new obstacle, so now what? So now what? So now what? So now what? So basically, as it kind of becomes this like, did they hit their goal at the end? Usually the answer is no, but they try to do this to fix it, or if it's kind of like a half yes, it could be like a yes, however, yeah, there's still this happening or something. But I didn't really grasp any of that until you had talked about like the internal and external happenings of each scene, but the five commandments per scene writing, especially just like really hit it home for me. And then the knowing what the antagonist is doing too at the same time. I think the five commandments and your antagonist knowing what they're doing was what really, really, really hit the nail on the head for me.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Okay, I want to dig into that. And for anyone listening who's like, what is she talking about? I'll link to some episodes where we go into antagonists and we go into scene structure. I know I'm getting super detailed here. Well, it's okay, because I know people are gonna nerd out on it. So we'll link to those in the show notes. And then, okay, so I know that when you were outlining, you're like in hindsight, now you're like, I had the tools, it was great, but I'm sure you still hit roadblocks. Like, it's not like you just sat down and were like, I just outlined the whole thing from start to finish, right? Yeah, yeah. And that's I think you correct me if I'm wrong, so I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that's where the antagonist kind of came in for you. Because I remember you talking about this where you would get to a certain point and you'd kind of get like, I don't know where we're going from here. And then you would switch over and go, What's my antagonist doing? Talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Oh my gosh. There's one specific part in the book, and it's like two-thirds into the book. So I will try to be detailed enough, but I have to be vague at the same time for spoilers. Spoilers. But but ultimately, the original way I had it planned in the outlined was oh my gosh, how do I do that with this without spoiling? I guess let me start by saying there was a part in the book where I wanted something to happen for the protagonist's sake, but I was having issues with it because it just didn't feel right. It didn't feel like this was how it was supposed to work in the story, and it took me forever to think about why. And then I talked to my husband about it, and he was like, Okay, well, your antagonist is a captain of a paramilitary force, anti-super organization and everything. If this is what's happening now in the book, why would someone of that tactical brain would allow essentially this thing to happen because you're ultimately just letting your protagonists do what they want while the antagonist is just sitting back there and watching? And I think that was when, among other parts in the outline, where I, especially with what I learned in Notes to Novel, where I had to be like, right, I need to do like not every after every chapter, but maybe after like a few chapters, every few chapters, ask myself, what is my antagonist doing right now? Because especially with the kind of character that she is, she's supposed to be like 10 steps ahead, super manipulative and tactical and everything. So she needs to be already winning the chess game when my protagonists are just figuring out how to play it. Yeah. So there's no way she's watching that. And I think that's important for a lot of people too, because we always think about well, then this happens and then this happens. And a lot of the times we're in the POV and mindset of our protagonists, but there are just so many other players in our worlds when we write. So uh there's a lot of cards to play.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

I find too, when you kind of zoom out and think about your antagonists, you just get so many ideas of what could happen. Oh, not everything has to be on the page and shown because you only get so many scenes. But you know, it's just like you think about what they're doing, and you're like, oh yeah, then I could use this to get in the way of my protagonist or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, there are some things that I had thought about, like after my husband said that to me of like, why don't they just do XYZ instead? And I'm like, oh, that's so much better. Yeah, you're like, dang.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

I love that because it kind of makes organic conflict, which then makes you feel like you're kind of doing something right because it starts to feel like the books you are reading, you know?

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Yes. And that's exactly what happened after. The moment I started thinking more about, well, what does my antagonist have to say about this? That's when that's when the story started to feel like, like you said, it's organic happenings of events and cause and effect and everything, versus just my protagonists going, Well, I'm gonna save the world this way. And the protect antagonist just goes, sure, go for it. Go for it. Why not? I'm not that bad.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Go for it. I'm not busy. Yeah, it's so funny. I love it. Okay, so then outlining worked better because you had some tools. How long approximately? Do you remember how long it took you to finish that first draft? Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

It is a little hard to get the real number because I think what ended up happening was I took a few months for myself and then paused and did the notes to novel course and then went back to writing after the course. So there's kind of like a six-month gap in between. But I think I think in the end though, and especially because my book was so long at first, and because I was still learning and getting used to things and whatnot, too. I think it took maybe seven to eight months total.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Okay, you're so funny because you're like hedging, like, there's all these reasons why it took seven to eight months, and like most people listening are like, you wrote a book in seven to eight months. Like, that's amazing. So we gotta give you some credit here because that is amazing. Oh, thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A great timeline.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

It was 157,000 words. Uh yeah. So um, I was pretty excited because I was like, oh, this this is the length of like Gideon the Ninth and Aragon and everything. And um, yeah, so I think from like November 2022 to February of like 2024 or something like that, with the gap time in between. So whatever, however that maths out.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

You're like, I don't do math, I'm not gonna worry about it. Oh, I can't. Yeah, what is your word count today?

SPEAKER_01 21:41

It's now 150,000, like almost flat. It's just a little underneath. But it wiggled, it wiggled across revisions. I think the highest it got to was 170. Yeah. And I I almost screamed for help at my editor.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Okay, so now talk about that a little because you finished the draft and then you went through probably multiple rounds of things. Yes. So did you have beta readers? I did. Yes. How did that go? Did they love it? Did they have anything surprising?

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Yeah, I was really fortunate with my beta readers because thanks to me streaming on Twitch, I had the absolute privilege of meeting other authors and writer peers and whatnot. And so my beta reader group ended up being a mix of family and friends who were really supportive, but also who could pass as critique partners and everything. And so I definitely learned a few things from them, especially

Beta Readers Versus Developmental Edits

SPEAKER_01 22:38

the one or two author friends that I had that were critique partners, especially the one who has been an indie author for like almost 30 years at this point. Yeah, she's fantastic. But she really helped me out the most, especially because I ended up doing beta readers before ever working with an editor first. And if I could go back in time, I would reverse that. But I know that now.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Okay, so tell people why, because they might not know why.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

So I was confident in my plotting, in my story, and how it went and everything. And when I was researching editors, I saw the difference between a developmental editor, a line editor, copy editor, and proofreader. And what I had ended up deciding or thinking was that I didn't think I fully needed a developmental editor. I could do a manuscript analysis just if that worked in the cards and budget and everything, but I would focus more on the line editor. So therefore, let me do beta readers first because then the line editing can happen later. And I worked with the one critique partner where she was very kind and polite and to the point to tell me that I absolutely hid the plot still at the beginning of the book. Because I was a little too focused on making it mystery for an action plot and story. And that's just how it is, and that's fine. I know now. But because of that, and then the manuscript analysis I got from my then line editor after, that was when I was like, oh, there's actually a lot more that could have been tweaked with the story. Not saying my outlining and whatever was bad, but of course, yeah, it could be polished and tweaked for to just make it better. And I would like to make sure then that I tweak it to the point with a developmental editor first and then send it to beta readers so that my beta readers in the end get more of the like actual entertainment read test versus hey, be peer critique partners for me. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

And I'll link to an episode where I talk about beta readers because I wanted Lindsay to explain it because this is exactly what I see a lot where it's exactly what you just said. They'll kind of people will skip a developmental edit because they either, you know, just think they don't need one or they think beta readers will do the trick. And like sometimes you can get, I mean, I know your beta readers were really excellent, but there's different types of beta readers too. There's ones that are kind of untrained like editors, and there are writers and whatever. But I'm glad you said that because I do think, you know, even the best drafts can always use a developmental edit.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Absolutely. I always advocate for hiring and working with an editor. They're fantastic people, and they absolutely help. And I mean, like, my mom was one of my beta readers, and there was no way I was going to expect her to be like, well, I think this chapter works because XYZ and everything. She she was reading just to read and support me, which I very much appreciated. But uh, she was one of the one beta readers I had where I was like, I just hope you like the book, honestly. Like, I don't know what to expect from you.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Yeah, you're like, I just want to hear what you think. Pretty much, yeah. That's awesome. I'm so glad she read the whole thing. That's so cool. I know, yeah. It's it was pretty wild. Okay, so you went through editing and you was there anything because this is the thing I think people worry about is, you know, you were at a point where you're like, I think my first draft is pretty good. Like it's pretty good. I think I'm pretty confident. And then I think they worry that if they feel that way and they go through beta readers or editors, that they're gonna suggest making major changes. Did you have any of that? With beta readers asking or suggesting to make major changes. Like what I think what tends to happen more than people realize is if they do the like hard work that you did up front, usually the heart of the story remains the same throughout the editing. Yes. Is that what your experience? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

No matter what changes happened, the heart of the story is still there. I'm trying to think about what large changes uh were suggested to me during this process. My well, like I said, my my one beta reader told me kindly that I completely hid the plot in the first 60% of the book. So that had to be changed. Yeah. Which is is fine, you know. I did have my one editor suggest, I think, cutting one or two chapters specifically, as well as certain parts of character interiority. And after talking with him and then working with another editor and other people and whatnot, what I had found out was that those two chapters just needed more. Like I didn't have like kind of the five commandments in there after revisions, among a few other things, or like certain plot beats still, or scene conventions and whatnot. Yeah. And as long as I just kind of added that then, then the chapters actually became more substantial and helped move the story forward than just be like a chapter of oh, we're eating dinner together and chatting.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Yeah, so it's kind of like they weren't living up to the other chapters, and then once you just tweak them, they did, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

100% correct. Yeah, those were the biggest changes, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

It was actually really good. And I know you're like, oh, the first 60% was hiding the plot. That's very common too. People try to get vague and mysterious, and even though like they have a plot there, it's just the execution of it. So in my mind, I'm like, that's okay. Most people do that. Yeah. But what I like to highlight is you did so much hard work before actually drafting that there's people who like they get to the page or they get to the outline and they don't do the theme work, they don't do the character work, and then they polish it and they get to an editor or a beta reader and they're like, your story doesn't work. Sorry, you know, and that's not what you had experienced. Right. Which I mean, how did that feel to hear that you wrote something that basically worked, just needed improvement?

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Oh my gosh. I honestly didn't even think about it like that until now. So no, the whole time I was just like, oh, more revisions, more revisions, more revisions. But now that you put it that way, I mean, yeah, you're you're totally right. I do beta reading for peers and whatnot too. And so we always talk about soggy middles with each other and everything. And there have been a few cases where some friends of mine were like, nope, I don't think this is working anymore because I'm clearly missing something. So I guess I'm gonna take the moment right now to just be grateful that all my hard work up front did not lead to something like that.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

I think that's really cool, and I think that's one of those easy things to skip when you know the chaos of editing and all that in life. But you did write a draft that worked for the most part. The story was there, and you just needed to tweak things and polish and smooth and in your case clarify a few things in the beginning, but 100% clarify, yeah. Because I see a lot of drafts too, and there's a lot that don't work fundamentally, and like you produced one that works, so that's really cool. Cool, and yeah, maybe maybe you'll have a think about it later. Like, I did that, really cool.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Yes, I am so bad at stopping to like smell the roses and everything. So the moment someone goes, Hey, you did that, I'm like, Oh crap, I did.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Yeah, and that's I love pointing this out because most people are like, Yeah, that is a big deal. It's a very big deal. A lot of people would love to be in the shoes of I wrote a draft at work, so you do have to stop and smell the roses at some point. Yeah, um, but okay, so then you went through editing, and then at some point you decided to indie publish. Was that always your goal, or did you debate? I did debate.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

I still think it would be cool to this day to have something trad published eventually, but at the same time, I really enjoy the freedom and control I have of indie publishing too. I think once I accepted that my manuscript was going to stay around 150,000 words, that's when I pretty much went, yeah, no trad publisher is gonna pick this up right now. So I will just let it out instead of try to cut it to make it work because otherwise the story would have been really mad at

Choosing Indie Publishing At 150K

SPEAKER_01 30:54

me if I did.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

So it's the story you wanted to tell. Readers like it, so yeah, what more can you want? Yeah, pretty much. But yeah, I love that. And so then you went through that whole self-publishing process. Was there any like surprises or any like lessons learned that you want to share about that? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Um my gosh, yeah, it's a journey. What hits me the most right now is what the publication phase actually looks like because it's not just uploading the manuscript onto places like KDP or Draft to Digital or whoever you want to use and hit publish and be done. I mean, I really wanted to put my best foot forward with not just this book, but also the poetry book that I published earlier in the year, even though the poetry book was a kind of experimental at the same time of how do I publish. But I

Launch Planning And Buffer Time

SPEAKER_01 31:47

worked on like a marketing campaign as best as I could. I worked on timing out giveaways and especially with this book, pre-order bundles and everything. Because I did direct selling on my website of pre-order bundles with art swag and whatnot. And between that and how long it actually takes to have an author copy printed to you and shipped to you and delivered to you and everything. I think what most people don't realize is how long all of that behind the scenes setup takes. And for both books, I basically did a two to three months like setup phase, and then I started the book launch of my marketing campaign and everything, like two months before the release date of both books. And I could very much still give myself more time just to breathe.

unknown 32:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Which I might need to later. If anyone listening has listened to other student spotlight episodes, that's like the theme of all of them is in the publishing part, like give yourself more time than you think by like two to four weeks. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's going to take longer than you think. Even if you read those blogs that are like, it takes six days to get, you know, the author copy or whatever, add time because it's not truly smooth sailing.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Yeah, I plan. Absolutely. Yeah. I follow a Kickstarter right now that I backed of another author here, and I feel so bad for her right now because her release day is tomorrow. And she just got her boxes of paperbacks that were supposed to be shipped out like two weeks ago already. So there was already a printing delay there. And the boxes came in yesterday and they were all damaged, all of the books. So now, so now she has to figure out how to like you know get fast shipping and everything of a new batch order and all that. And always something stuff.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Yeah, always something. So plan a buffer, truly biggest lesson ever. Yeah. Truly. Well, I'm gonna link to your Instagram and also to your website so people can see some of the marketing stuff you've been doing. Cause I've been, of course, following along and it's been fun. And it feels I think you did a good job of like, you don't feel salesy, you know, you're good, you're so excited, and you're like, my book is in the world, and like here's why you might like it. So I think you've done a really good job, and I think people will like to see, you know, what you've been up to.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

I appreciate that because the imposter syndrome and other loud parts in my brain always think I'm way too salesy or otherwise.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

So I appreciate that. I think a lot of authors aren't natural, like, we don't want to be salesmen, you know, so it's it might feel weird doing it, but you're not even in that realm. So good, great job. But okay, so this is a question I didn't plan on asking you, but because you said like when you were 10 years old, you were like writing stories down. Like, I want you to think about or just like say, what would you say to that 10-year-old Lindsay right now about the writing dream?

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Oh no. Gosh, I did this with my therapist the other week. Oh my gosh. Yeah, because it was just, it's it's been that kind of reflective part of the journey and everything. I don't know honestly what I could say because every time I imagine her, she's just so like dough eyed at me with

Advice For Writers Who Feel Stuck

SPEAKER_01 35:06

like little sparkles in her eyes of like, wait, this is the life right now at your low 30s age and everything. And I'd be like, Yeah, we it was hard, but we got here. And she just she'd be over the boon. She'd be over the boon. So uh I would probably end up saying something like, Man, when you think you know what you're doing, you don't. Hang in there, hang in there, yeah. And no matter what, always stand back up because you can fall down, and we all will fall down. We'll all keep falling down. That's just life. But as long as you get back up, that's what's most important. I think that's something along the lines of like one of my favorite like Japanese proverbs where it goes, fall down seven times, get back up eight. Between that and not all who wander are lost, those are my favorite quotes to live by.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

So oh my gosh, I love that. I also love not all who wander are wander. That's one of my favorites. Grandpa Tolkien, all the best. I know. But okay, so I feel like we could also end there, but I just want to ask you one last question is for the writers who were where you were when you had that outline that didn't work, what would you say to those people?

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Oh man, I'm putting you on the spot. I know. I'm trying to like throw myself back into who I was and where I was and how is it how I was feeling during all of that. I think first and foremost, just you can do it. Believe in yourself. You have the capabilities to write the book you want to write. Always remember why you're writing it in the first place because that will help drive you forward. But you can and will do it. It will definitely take more effort than you think it will, but then it's worth it in the end. I promise you it is worth it in the end. So don't cut corners or anything, just do the work and it's gonna be awesome and be proud of yourself and be kind of yourself during the process. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

That last one's important. So basically, get up that eighth time is what you're saying. Yep. I love that. Well, Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing your journey and behind the scenes. And like I said, we will link to your website, your Instagram, your book, all that in the show notes. But quickly tell people where they can find you on the internet.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

I am at www.lindsaysafera.com. That is all one word. And you can also find me on Instagram, especially at lindsay.sefera. And as I said with my Twitch streaming, it is writer Lee. So writer and then L-I-I at the end. And those are the three main spots you can find me and come say hi. Like I said, we like friends, and I'm just the cheerleader that's here to back you up for your writing endeavors.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

So love it. Okay, we'll link to all that, and then you guys can go find Lindsay around the internet. But thank you so much for coming on, Lindsay. And I'm like over the moon seeing this book finally come to life because I know it's been a long time in the making, and congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

I don't know what I would do without you, honestly, Savannah. Like, truly, like notes to novel seriously changed everything. And if I didn't take that course, I legit don't know if I would be here right now. So thank you for what you do and and the course that you made and all of your insight and whatnot, even during those coaching calls and everything. And I'm glad I discovered you. And yeah, absolutely. Thanks to you and teaching me how to put in the hard work and all that. I'm here now. So thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Lindsay's story is such a good reminder that getting stuck doesn't mean you're not capable of finishing your novel or that your idea doesn't work. Sometimes it just means the plan you're writing from isn't giving you enough to work with. I mean, Lindsay had a full scene-by-scline, but she still got stuck at 25,000 words because she couldn't see how the events connected, how one scene caused the next, or what her antagonist was doing behind the scenes to keep the story moving forward. So if you can relate, if you heard Lindsay's story today and thought, oh my gosh, I want that, the finished draft, the outline I can actually trust, and the confidence

Notes To Novel Invitation And Closing

SPEAKER_00 39:07

that my story works in the big picture, then my notes to Novel course might be exactly what you're looking for. Notes to Novel is my step-by-step program that helps you go from scattered ideas to a finished draft. You'll learn how to develop a solid foundation for your story, create a scene-by-scene outline that gives you enough direction to keep moving, and write your draft without asking it to figure out everything along the way. Doors are opening again very soon, so head over to Savannah Gilbo.com forward slash waitlist to add your name to the interest list, and you'll be the first to know when doors open. So one more time, that's savanna gilbo.com forward slash wait list to learn more about notes to novel and be the first to know when doors open. I would very much love to see you inside the program. Now, with that being said, that's all I have for you for today's episode. Thank you so much for tuning in. I hope your writing is going well, and I will talk to you again next week.