Why The Diagram Still Leaves You Stuck

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You've got a story idea you love, and somewhere along the way you heard that the hero's journey is the way to structure it. There's 12 stages, you have a hero who leaves home, faces trials, and comes back changed. It sounds very clean, it sounds very doable, and it seems like it'll make writing a whole novel feel less like an impossible dream and more like a series of steps you can actually follow. But here's the thing nobody tells you. Knowing the 12 stages and actually using them to outline your novel are two very different things. So today I'm gonna walk you through exactly how to do it, how to divide your word count into acts where each of the 12 stages lands, right down to the percentage marks and rough scene numbers for your big turning points, as well as the part that most guides on the hero's journey skip entirely. And that is what this framework can't do on its own, so you know what your story still needs underneath the hero's journey to hold it all together. Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy Podcast. My name is Savannah Gilbo, and I'm here to help you write a story that works. I want to prove to you that writing a novel doesn't have to be overwhelming. So each week I'll bring you a brand new episode with simple, actionable, and step-by-step strategies that you can implement in your writing right away. So whether you're brand new to writing or more of a seasoned author looking to improve your craft, this podcast is for you. So pick up a pen and let's get started. Okay, so let me paint a picture and tell me if this is you. You've got the hero's journey diagram saved somewhere. You know the one I'm talking about, it's the circle with the 12 stages arranged around it like numbers on a clock. Maybe you have it pinned on Pinterest or screenshot it on your phone or print it out and taped above your desk. And you've studied it. You could probably recite the stages right now if I put you on the spot or at least name a handful of them. You've got the ordinary world, the call to adventure, the refusal of the call, and so on and so on. And yet, if you're anything like a lot of the writers I talk to, when you sit down to outline your book, you freeze. Because that diagram tells you what the stages are. But it doesn't tell you where they go in an 80,000-word manuscript. It doesn't tell you how much of your book each one should take up, or how that circle is supposed to become the linear act-by-act shape of a real novel. So you end up in this strange in-between place. You understand the hero's journey in theory, but you can't quite use it. And that gap between knowing and using it, that's what we're going to solve for today. By the end of this episode, you'll know how to take that circle-shaped diagram and turn it into a novel-shaped outline you can actually work inside. And just as importantly, you'll know where that framework stops being helpful and what your story still needs underneath it. So let's go ahead and dive

Outer Plot Versus Inner Change

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right in. And I want to start off with a really quick orientation just so we're all on the same page. The hero's journey is a story structure that maps two things at once. It maps your character's external adventure and your character's internal transformation. And it unfolds across 12 stages that are grouped into three acts. So act one is the departure, act two is the descent and initiation, and act three is the return. Now for today, I'm using Christopher Vogler's 12-stage version of the hero's journey. Christopher Vogler took Joseph Campbell's monomyth or the single underlying pattern that Campbell believed sits beneath myths from cultures all over the world, and he adapted it into something more practical for writers. So that is the framework we're building on, and I will link to Christopher Vogler's book in the show notes if you want to check it out. Alright, so that is a very, very quick overview of the hero's journey from the biggest picture. And before we dive in and start going through each of the 12 stages, I want to slow down on one thing because the whole structure rests on it, and it's the part that makes the difference between an outline that works and an outline that just kind of sits there. So here's the key to making the hero's journey work. As I hinted at earlier, the hero's journey tracks two things at the same time. Number one is what your hero does or what happens in the plot. And number two is who your hero becomes or how they grow and change as a result of the story. So again, that outer journey is the external plot. It's everything your character does to chase their goals, so what they want and all the obstacles that stand between them and that thing. The inner journey, on the other hand, is an emotional one. It's everything your character has to become in order to get what they truly need. And what I mean by that is they're going to grow and change because of the obstacles they face on their outer journey. So those external trials are what force the internal change. And that's the part you can't really skip. For your story to work, these two journeys have to stay connected. The outer events need to drive the inner change. And I say you can't skip it because when they're not connected, you can technically map out all 12 stages and still end up with an outline or a first draft that feels really flat. And that's because essentially what you'll have is just a list of things that happen instead of an actual story. So keep that in the back of your mind as we go through the episode because it is the thread running underneath everything else.

Build The Container With Words

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Alright, so now I'm going to walk you through actually building your outline and we're going to do it in three steps. First, we're going to divide your target word count into acts, then we're going to break those acts into scenes, and then we're going to map the 12 stages on top. Now, for this example, I'm going to use a target of 80,000 words because that is the average length of a commercial fiction novel. But you can use whatever target word count you're comfortable with as you follow along. The math will work the same regardless of your target word count. All right, so step one is where we want to divide your target word count down into three acts. So this is the first step that turns that circular diagram into a linear novel-shaped container that you can actually work inside before you get down to the nitty-gritty of each of the 12 stages. And the standard breakdown goes like this. Act one, the departure, is about 25% of your total word count. Act two, the descent and the initiation is about 50%. So that's the big one. It's the whole middle of your book. And then act three, the return, is the final 25%. So for an 80,000-word novel, that shakes out to about 20,000 words for act one, about 40,000 words for act two, and about 20,000 words for act three. And that is it for step one. You've just taken the big task of writing 80,000 words and broke it into smaller pieces. And now we're going to do that on an even more granular scale. So step two is to break each one of those acts into scenes. And a good working target for how long a scene should be is about 2,000 words. I say it's a good target because that is long enough to convey what's happening in each scene, and it's short enough to keep a reader's attention and keep them turning pages. Now, as with most things I talk about on this podcast, that is not a hard and fast rule. Scenes can run shorter or longer, and they most definitely will. But a lot of writers find it a whole lot easier to work toward a guideline than to stare down a blank page. So we are going to use 2,000 words as our anchor for each scene. Now back to our three-act

Scenes And Turning Point Landmarks

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roadmap. When you divide each act by 2,000 words, you get roughly 10 scenes in act one, about 20 scenes in act two, and about 10 scenes in act three. So somewhere around 40 scenes to start total. Now again, you can have more or less scenes, but I like to go with a nice round number to start our plan. Okay. So that is step two. We took our three acts and we broke them down into an approximate scene count. All right, now step three is where we're gonna map your story using the 12 stages of the hero's journey. Now before we get into the nitty-gritty details, I just want to make one thing super clear. The 12 stages are not 12 scenes, okay? The 12 stages are not 12 scenes. This is one of the biggest things that I see trip writers up, whether they're using Hero's Journey, Save the Cat, or whatever method they like. So one more time, the 12 stages are not 12 scenes. Okay, they are story movements. Some of them will unfold in a single scene and others will stretch across several. So don't try to force one stage into one scene because that is just not how it works. Now, with that being said, a handful of these stages aren't floating. What I mean by that is the major turning points have a home that you can actually mark. So as we go through this, I'm going to give you two things for those key scenes, the percentage mark where each one tends to land and roughly which scene that works out to on your 40 scene map that we just built. And I want you to think of these turning points as landmarks. So these are the key moments that you're going to outline or write towards, and the other stages just kind of fill in the space from one landmark to the next. So again, remember that when I'm saying 12 stages, those are not individual scenes. Some of them will be individual scenes, and others will be moments or story movements that span multiple scenes. All right, I know I sound like a broken record, but again, I'm saying it over and over because it's one of the biggest things that I see trip writers up. Now I'm gonna walk you through what each stage is actually doing act by act, and I recommend grabbing a pen and some paper or your notes app because I think the best thing you can do right now is to jot down any ideas that bubble up for you in your own story as I go through this. All right, so push pause, grab your pen and paper or your notes app or whatever you're working with, and let's dive in.

Act One Stages And First Threshold

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So we're gonna start with act one, which remember is called the departure. And this is the first 25% of your story, which represents about 10 scenes on our roadmap. And the whole job of this act is to call your hero away from their ordinary world and get them to commit to the adventure ahead. All right, so stage one is the ordinary world, and this is where we meet your hero in their everyday life before any of the adventure begins. You'll want to introduce your hero sympathetically here so that readers connect with who they are, and you'll want to let us glimpse what's missing in their life or what's currently unresolved in their world. So give us a glimpse of it here, show us how it's affecting them, and know that this could be a problem that your hero isn't even fully aware of, but that's fine. We just want to see a glimpse of it here. All right, then stage two is the call to adventure, and this is your inciting incident. This is one of those key moments that I mentioned earlier. So this one typically lands around the 12% mark of your entire story. So on our 40 scene map, this is somewhere around scene five. And in this scene, something needs to happen that upsets the balance of your hero's life and pushes them towards what's ahead. Typically, it presents a problem, a challenge, or an opportunity that they just can't ignore. It sharpens their sense that something has to change and it sets the rest of the story in motion. All right, now stage three is the refusal of the call. So this is where your hero hesitates or refuses the call to adventure outright. Because we all know that stepping into the unknown is frightening and the life that they'd be leaving behind feels really safe and familiar. So for now, their reluctance to change wins out over the call to adventure. All right, then next up we have stage four. This one's called meeting with the mentor. And here the hero meets or meets with a mentor figure, often a person, but it doesn't have to be. And what they take away from this meeting is maybe a hard-won lesson, a tool, some kind of advice or piece of information. Doesn't really matter what it is, just something that they didn't have before. And whatever happens here gives the hero what they need to get past that feeling of reluctance and whatever they need to move forward. So again, it could be training, it could be advice, it could be knowledge, the tools, or maybe even just the courage to face their fears. And then last up in act one, we have stage five, which is crossing the first threshold. And this is another one of those key moments. It's often called the first plot point. And this is when your hero crosses from act one into act two. So this one typically happens at the 25% mark, right around scene number 10. So here the hero fully commits to change and steps out of their ordinary world into the new unfamiliar one where the adventure actually unfolds. And from here on out, there is no turning back. All right, so that is act one. We went through five

Act Two Stages And The Midpoint Ordeal

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stages. Now we're moving into act two, which is called descent and initiation. And this section is the middle of your story, so 50% of your total story and about 20 scenes. In this section, your hero is now in an unfamiliar world, they're making allies and enemies, they're surviving your story's central crisis, and they're reaching the turning point that eventually sends them home. So here we're starting off with stage six, and that one is called tests, allies and enemies. So now that your hero is in this new world, this is where they're gonna make friends, enemies, learn how things work, and start experimenting with who they're becoming. And listen, this stretch right here is where a lot of middles start to sag. So your job here is to keep the challenges escalating. Each test they face should cost more than the last one until the hero gets pushed from just reacting to events into actively driving them. All right, the next up we have stage seven. So this is called the approach to the inmost cave. And here, this is where your hero closes in on the most dangerous part of this new world so far. So this is the place where their biggest challenge yet is waiting. This stage is also the buildup before the big confrontation. So often you'll see heroes planning, regrouping, studying themselves, whatever they need to do before the big moment that's coming. All right, now stage eight, this one's really important. This one's called the ordeal, and this is the midpoint of your story. So it occurs at the 50% mark, dead center of your whole story, right around scene 20. And it's the central crisis of the whole journey and the hero's toughest test so far. So here they might confront a major fear, an enemy, a temptation, or a hard truth. Either way, we want to see them attempting the big change that the entire story has been building toward. And this experience will transform them, but maybe not all the way. So they're attempting that big change whether they realize it or not. And either way, they come out different, but maybe they haven't quite learned the full lesson of your story yet. Now, in mythic terms, this is that death and rebirth moment. So some old version of the hero falls away and a stronger, more conscious version begins to emerge. After that, we have stage nine, which is called the reward. So having survived the ordeal, your hero now claims a reward. This could be an object, a secret, some kind of hard-won knowledge, or maybe even reconciliation with someone that they care about. This is also where the fallout from the ordeal lands, both the gains and the losses. But either way, whatever the hero comes away with is something they'll need to survive what's still ahead. Alright, and then lastly in act two, we have stage 10, which is called the road back. And this one bridges act two into act three. It typically happens around the 75% mark, which is about scene 30 on your 40 scene roadmap. And this is often where that all is lost moment or your story's low point falls. So, reward in hand, your hero rededicates themselves to finishing what they started, and they're either ready to turn back home or they actually make that turn toward home. But the story isn't over yet, and the consequences of the ordeal come raging after them, often in some kind of chase, and the final confrontation starts to take shape. Alright, so that is act two, and we went through stages six through ten.

Act Three Climax And Return Home

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Now, act three is called the return, and this is your final 25% or the final 10 scenes on your 40 scene roadmap. In this stage, the hero faces their final test and they return home transformed. There are just two stages here, but don't let that fool you. They carry the most weight of anything in the book, which is exactly why they get a full quarter of your word count to land. Alright, so stage 11 is called the resurrection, and this is your climax. It lands around the 88% to 90% mark, so let's call it scene 35 or 36, and it's the hero's final test with higher stakes than anything that came before. Think of it like their last attempt at the change they've been resisting all along. So this is where we find out whether the hero has truly learned the lesson of this journey and whether they've become the person the story needed them to become. Last up we have stage 12, which is called return with the elixir. So here your hero comes home changed. They've mastered the problem they couldn't even see at the start, and they're bringing something back with them. Now, don't let the word elixir fool you. This could just be something like some kind of hard-won wisdom, repaired trust, justice, some kind of peace, or simply a solution to the problem that they left behind. Alright, so that is act three, the return, and the final two stages in the 12 stages of the hero's journey. And that's it. That's the whole structure. All 12 stages mapped across your three acts inside of 80,000 words.

What The Hero’s Journey Cannot Do

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Now I want to be honest with you about something because here's the part that most guides skip, and I really want you to hear this, so stay with me. We just went through the whole structure, and you've probably noticed how neatly it lines up with both your plot's turning points and your hero's inner arc. That's what I said at the beginning, right? The hero's journey tracks both. But the catch is that this is still just a skeleton. Even Christopher Vogler in his book says, and I'm literally quoting him here, he says the hero's journey is a skeletal framework that should be fleshed out with the details and surprises of the individual story. So, yes, it's brilliant for seeing the shape of a transformation, but what it can't do is develop the specific story that you're going to tell with it. And two things in particular are still on you. So, first, you still need to account for your genre. That's because every genre comes with its own set of conventions. So these are the specific key scenes, the specific character roles, situations, settings, you know, all those things that say a romance or a thriller or a mystery promises its readers. So again, the hero's journey gives you a broad shape, but not necessarily how those scenes or the moments we talked through need to show up in a way that your readers are actually waiting for. And if you don't deliver on readers' expectations of your genre, they're going to be disappointed, even if they can't name why. All right, so that's the first thing the hero's journey doesn't account for. The second thing, and this is the big one, is that you still need to develop your ideas into a story that's strong enough to support a full-length novel. So what I mean by that is that the stages of the hero's journey can tell you that the ordeal belongs somewhere in the middle of your story at that 50% mark, right? But they can't tell you what an ordeal looks like for your character or how it typically shows up in your genre or how it might show up given the plot that you're working with or the theme you're trying to express, or if let's say you have multiple point of view characters, right? There's a lot that it can't account for, and that part is on you. So you still have to develop your ideas into a story that is strong enough to carry a whole novel. That means you need to flesh out your characters, your conflict, your theme, and stakes that all connect into a story that actually works. And this is the kind of work that has to come first so that a structure like The Hero's Journey has something to hold up. And if you skip that work, you're going to feel it the moment you sit down to outline whether you use a tool like The Hero's Journey or Save the Cat or whatever it is. You'll have the map, but nothing solid to put it on. And that right there is why a draft or an outline can lose steam in the middle, even when all 12 stages are technically in place. A lot of writers will blame the structure and they'll think, okay, well, maybe the hero's journey just didn't work for me and they'll move on to a different one. But usually structure is not the problem. The real gap or the real problem is that that foundational work that every story needs underneath the structure was never built. All right, so I just want you to keep that in mind if you are to use something like the Hero's Journey or any of the other story structure frameworks out there. Again, I think they are all excellent

Three Takeaways And Next Steps

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tools, but they do need a working story to lay on top of. All right, now before I let you go, let me boil this whole thing down into three things I want you to walk away from the episode with. Key point number one is that I want you to build the container before you place the stages. So again, pick a target word count, break that down into three sections, and then divide each of those sections into scenes. That's going to give you a novel-shaped map, around 40 scenes and 80,000 words in the example that we use today. And only then do I want you to start placing the 12 stages or brainstorming where those would show up. And placing them is its own real work, by the way. Each stage is a question about your story that you have to answer, and it's not just a box that you can tick, right? Key point number two is that you are tracking two separate threads at the same time. So there is the outer journey, which is the plot, everything your character does to chase their goal, and then the inner journey, which is how they change on the inside along the way. And those two threads have to stay connected with the outer events, forcing the inner change. Because again, you can technically hit all 12 stages and end up with a list of things that just kind of happen instead of things that add up to something that feels like a story. And usually it comes down to the plot and that internal character growth working together and driving each other forward. All right, now key point number three is that the hero's journey is a lens. It's a way of structuring your ideas, but it's not a true blueprint for writing a story that works. Again, the difference is that a lens is a way of seeing something. So it shows you the general shape of how a plot could unfold or how a character could transform. A blueprint would be the step-by-step roadmap for building your specific novel. So the hero's journey I consider to be a lens. It shows you the shape, but it can't tell you what your story is actually made of. Your genre, your premise, the character, the conflicts, the theme, and the stakes that are running underneath it. That part is still on you to develop. And it has to come first because without it, you've got the shape of a story with nothing real or solid inside it. Okay, so use the hero's journey for what it's great at, and that is mapping a transformation arc. Just don't expect it to do the work it was never designed to do, because that foundational work that is the part that's gonna hold everything else up. All right, now if you enjoyed this episode, if it cleared up even one thing about how to actually use the hero's journey, I would love it if you would scroll down and tap those five stars on Apple or Spotify. And bonus points if you write a quick review on Apple, because what that does is it lets other writers know this show is going to be worth their time too. And it genuinely helps more than you know. I also read every single review and I love hearing from you. And if you're still here and you're sitting there thinking, okay, I love the structure, but it's that foundational work that Savannah's talking about that I'm not sure I've done yet. Then that's exactly what I help writers build inside notes to novel. It's where you do that hard thinking early in the right order, so that when you sit down to outline with a framework like The Hero's Journey, you've actually got something true to put on the map. So head over to the link in the show notes and join the wait list, and I will make sure you're the first to know when we open back up. One last thing before you go, I want to give you a little preview of what's coming up. In the next episode, I'm sharing a student spotlight that you do not want to miss. One of our notes to novel grads, who, by the way, is a multi-time best-selling author who's hit the USA Today bestseller list five times, sat down with me to discuss how the course gave her a more efficient way to finish her first drafts fast without sacrificing quality. So if you've ever wondered whether structure and speed can actually coexist with good writing, then this conversation is going to be a real treat. So that's coming up next, and that's all I have for you in today's episode. As always, thank you so much for tuning in. I hope your writing is going well, and I will see you next week.