SPEAKER_00: 0:00

You want to write beautiful sentences and compelling stories, but if you don't have the kind of foundational mental habits that are gonna help you build all those skills and stick with it through the long haul, it's gonna be so much harder than it needs to be. The mindset piece is like the foundation and everything else gets built on top of that.

SPEAKER_01: 0:22

Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy Podcast. My name is Savannah Gilbo, and I'm here to help you write a story that works. I want to prove to you that writing a novel doesn't have to be overwhelming. So each week I'll bring you a brand new episode with simple, actionable, and step-by-step strategies that you can implement in your writing right away. Whether you're brand new to writing or more of a seasoned author looking to improve your craft, this podcast is for you. So pick up a pen and let's get started. In today's episode, we're talking about what it really takes to build a sustainable writing practice, one that actually works with your life instead of against it. My guest today is Dr. Bailey Lang, a book coach, editor, and writer, and she specializes in working one-on-one with authors to create sustainable, enjoyable writing practices that take their books from draft to done. And Bailey's background is in rhetoric and writing studies, which means that she has spent a lot of time researching how people actually get writing done, as well as what gets in the way. So today Bailey is sharing a framework that she calls the eight habits of mind. And these are practical, positive orientations toward your writing practice that go beyond just dealing with imposter syndrome or writer's block. Instead, they help you proactively build the kind of writing life you actually want. So in this episode, you're going to hear us talk through all eight habits: curiosity, openness, engagement, creativity, persistence, responsibility, flexibility, and metacognition. And we'll talk about what each one looks like in practice. And the best part is that Bailey's going to walk you through exactly how to start implementing these habits without overwhelming yourself. So if you've ever felt stuck, burnt out, or like your writing practice just isn't working the way you want it to, then this episode is for you. Now let's dive right into my conversation with Dr. Bailey Lang. Hi, Bailey. Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy Podcast. Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Sure. I'm so excited for the topic we are going to talk about today, which is what you call habits of mind. But before we get into that, can you just tell my audience who you are, what you do, and things like that? Awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 2:31

Yeah. Hi. I am Dr. Bailey Lang. I am a book coach, an editor, and a writer. So I work one-on-one with writers to build sustainable, magical, enjoyable writing practices that help them take their books from draft to done. So I love working with writers on unblocking the things that make their writing practice feel like magic and getting their stories out into the world.

SPEAKER_01: 2:56

Love that. And so you teach these eight habits of mind. What do you mean when you say habits of mind?

SPEAKER_00: 3:02

Yeah. It is an interesting term. So this comes from research in the field that I came out of, which is rhetoric and writing studies, which is very focused on how people get writing done, what we do with the writing that we're producing, and how to make it as effective as possible. Sometimes that's in terms of like persuasion, sometimes that's in terms of actually getting words on the page. And so habits of mind are kind of these like intellectual and also practical methods of learning something, right? How do you stay engaged with your writing practice, right? Engagement is one of those mental habits. So they are strategies for helping you build a writing practice that is actually going to be successful. So we can think of them kind of in the same bucket as like general writing mindset. Often, I think when we talk about mindset as writers, we kind of default to dealing with the tougher parts of building a writing practice. How do I deal with imposter syndrome? What do I do if I have writer's block, right? We kind of we know about all of the difficulties that we're likely to face in our writing practices, but we don't spend as much time thinking about how do I cultivate these really practical, positive orientations toward becoming a better writer that are actually going to move my practice forward and not just get me unstuck, basically.

SPEAKER_01: 4:28

I love that too, because one sounds very reactive, right? We know we're experiencing imposter syndrome or we're stuck for whatever reason, perfectionism, whatever. And then what you're saying is we can also be very proactive and say, kind of like a professional athlete, how do we develop our skills and you know become the kind of person I want to be, the writer I want to be? So I'm already fascinated, but you have eight of these. So can you walk us through a few or all of them, whatever you want to do?

SPEAKER_00: 4:55

Yeah, I'll kind of run down the list and then if there are any that sound particularly interesting, we can talk about those in some more detail. So these come from a framework for success in post-secondary writing. So this is actually really focused on like what helps college students succeed at writing. What they found as they did this research is that these principles, these habits of mind, are not just for like getting your comp 101 papers written, like they work in all sorts of environments. My dissertation work was actually looking at can we find evidence of these habits of mind in the past? So I did an archival study looking at writing practices from well over a century ago, and these same patterns show up there as well. So that's amazing. It's really fun. I could geek out about it all day. It's the best. So these habits are curiosity, openness, engagement, creativity, persistence, responsibility, which I sometimes like to refer to as devotion instead, flexibility and metacognition. Most of those probably sound pretty familiar right off the bat. Metacognition is usually the one that I like to define for people because I know that's not creativity. We all kind of have a sense of what we're talking about here. Metacognition, sometimes people are like, I don't know what that word means. What is that word? So metacognition is the ability to think about your own thinking, which can sound super recursive, but if you have a journal where you write about this is what's going on for me emotionally, and like I'm kind of stuck in this loop or whatever, that's metacognition, right? You're thinking about your own thoughts, you're thinking about your own behaviors and your patterns. If you have a mindfulness meditation practice, that's also a form of metacognition. So anything that's helping you recognize, like, oh, that's imposter syndrome, there's that loop again. I recognize that that's what metacognition is.

SPEAKER_01: 6:45

Okay, that is super interesting. And so the one that stood out to me immediately was openness, because, like you said, there are some that are more obvious, like creativity and you know, things like that. But openness, I feel like, can cover so many things that we wouldn't like naturally think.

SPEAKER_00: 7:00

Can you go into that one a little more? Yeah, I love talking about openness because what that means in terms of the habits of mind is, and this is how the framework defines it, it's the willingness to consider new ways of being and thinking in the world, which I think is a really beautiful definition, right? Because we can be open to all sorts of different things and we can be very closed off to different things. So when it comes to our writing practices, I think of openness as how willing are you to try something new, right? If you are feeling stuck, if you feel like you're hitting a wall in your practice, you know, how willing are you to run an experiment on that? To give yourself, say, okay, for the next week, I'm gonna try getting up an hour early and trying to write during that period and just see what happens, right? Don't go into it with preconceived ideas about whether or not it's gonna work. Like, really just give it an honest try. And then at the end of that, reflect on it. How well did it work? Did you like it? You know, did you get writing done, or did you wake up and you were super groggy and like all you wanted to do was look at your phone? And so just being open to that experience and trying it can give you really, really good information.

SPEAKER_01: 8:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 8:12

This can also refer to like when you're looking for inspiration, are you kind of turning to the same sources over and over again? Or how open are you to like reading outside of your preferred genre or reading a really classic book if you write really contemporary stuff, like finding inspiration in places that you might not expect, or going to a museum, right? Doing something totally different that's not even related to writing can be really, really cool too. So that kind of like mental openness to just trying stuff, yeah, it can be really, really huge for a writing practice that works.

SPEAKER_01: 8:46

I love that because I can also imagine it like boosts our creativity as well. If you do something like go to a museum where you normally wouldn't, or read fast-paced thrillers when you normally read contemporary romance, you know, that just jogs that creativity, which I know is another one of the eight habits. But the other thing I was thinking as you were saying that is this applies to working on our stories too, because I see this a lot with writers, and we talk about this in my program as something called our capacity for zero. So it's like we need to be willing to have this capacity to break down act one and say that didn't work. I need to start over and be open to something different. So I think I don't know, this might be my favorite habit already because I'm like, I can see how this applies from what we actually do when we show up to our desk to how we're showing up to our individual scene craft and so much more. So I love that. What is your favorite habit, or what do you think the one is that like you most often work with writers on?

SPEAKER_00: 9:41

Oof, that is such a good question. I think one of the ones that shows up really, really frequently is persistence because it's really easy for people to devalue their own creative practices and think, well, I'll write when I have time, right? When things calm down next week. Yeah, it's always next week, and then this week somehow is always busy, right? It's really, really easy for us to put our writing aside, especially if it's not the thing that that is our main source of income, right? If this is something that we're doing because we would like to be professional writers or because it's something that we love doing, everything else could feel like it has to take precedence. Everything else can seem so much more urgent. And so talking to people about persistence, that ability to like stick with a project, especially when you're in that like messy middle phase where nothing feels like it's working and it's really easy to be like, you know, I'm just gonna go binge some Netflix instead of like sticking with this because it's hard. That's I think a really big one to kind of work on at practice and think about what matters to you at the end of the day, right? Is telling this story important enough to you to stick with it? And often I find when I ask people that, they're like, Yeah, like I want this out in the world. And it's like, okay, so how do we build that muscle? How do we prove to ourselves that we are capable of seeing a project all the way through to the finish line? Right. It's a huge challenge sometimes, but it's also so rewarding when you have that evidence for yourself that, like, yeah, I can finish a story, I can finish a book. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_01: 11:20

Yeah, and I love two things about what you just said. You said it's like building a muscle, which it feels like kind of when you want to start working out, right? How many of us would rather just watch Netflix because it's easier? But we know that working out is good for us and we want the result, right? So if we kind of look at it that way, like, yes, I know it's a creative project to write a novel, but it's also something, like you said, we can bring that like persistence to and do it. The other thing I liked about what you said is it's almost like you shift writers away from that fear-based thought or like, you know, I'm not making money. It's like all the excuses that kind of come up and let us not take our writing seriously. And you shift them into this like love-based thought or like positive thought, right? It's like, what do you want to do and what would that result mean to you? And then it's like, okay, yeah, I can do this, right?

SPEAKER_00: 12:09

Yes. Yeah. And that's for me too, is where I think with referring to responsibility as devotion, the love comes into that too, right? Responsibility can feel gross. Like I'm responsible for cleaning the bathroom, right? You know, like that doesn't feel fun, but devotion, there's a whole other emotional valence to that. Like I am devoted to my craft. So of course I'm gonna show up for this. I'm in love with writing. Of course I'm gonna make the time and space for it in my life. That's how I show that devotion. So that also has been a really helpful reframe and just keeping people focused on like, yeah, the love is it's essential.

SPEAKER_01: 12:47

Yeah, definitely. And I don't know why I keep going back to like athletes, but I think because we're just so used to seeing athletes perform, you know? And we look at Olympic athletes and we say, like, oh, they're so devoted to their craft. And, you know, and then when I hear you say those words about writing, I can just feel some people almost out there thinking it's not the same. And it's like, well, it can be the same, you know? Everyone starts somewhere. Those Olympic athletes started somewhere, and just, you know, all of us listening are gonna start with some kind of draft. And the more we show up and embody these eight habits, you know, the closer we get to that mastery and that success. So I love that. Is there one habit that people resist more than the others?

SPEAKER_00: 13:27

Ooh, that's such a good question. I think flexibility can be a real challenge for people. A lot of folks come with the this kind of ingrained assumption that like a writing practice has to look one way, right? It has to be one thing. We get these sort of narratives about what a real writer does, and we lose that ability to adapt, right? When like your life blows up, right? Or something dramatic changes, or you know, your kid gets sick, you get sick, right? Even something small like that can completely throw off your routine for a period of time. And if you don't have the practice like flexing how you approach your writing in those moments, it can completely throw off your entire practice, right? I talk about this a lot in terms of like writing streaks, which I think can be really helpful up to a point, right? If you are the kind of person who, when that streak breaks, it's gonna devastate you. Probably don't give yourself a writing streak, right? Like you need to figure out a more flexible way to approach things because it's that sort of rigid, like I have to write every single day at the same time in the same way. I don't know anybody whose life works like that, right? We need that, right? Like I wish, I love predictability, but we need that flexibility. We need the capability to adapt and also to not like beat ourselves up when we have to do that. And that can be really challenging for people to even give themselves like the tiniest bit of grace when things are not going the way they think they should.

SPEAKER_01: 14:59

Yeah, I love that. And I feel like we could talk about this one forever because you know, it's the parents who their kids get sick, and then that suddenly means that they didn't show up to their writing. So that means they're a failure, and that means they're never gonna, you know, publish their book. And so some of it is just kind of separating, like you're saying, we need to be flexible. Things are going to happen, and when those things happen, it doesn't mean anything about you. You know, what could mean something about you is your willingness to be flexible, and like then that feels better than I'm a failure because my kid got sick and I couldn't write, you know. So I could see this one being a big deal for people. And also this shows up on the craft level too, because something it makes me laugh every time we go through my course a little bit when I tell people your outlines can look however you want them to look, and they're like, Really? And it's like, yes, really. They can look however you want. Whatever works best for you works for me, you know? So I totally agree. We and how many people quote the Stephen King on writing book? You know, it's like, well, he did this, so I can do this. Yes. And it's like, yeah, we need to experiment and try things on, but at some point we need to have our own way of showing up and our own like grace and acceptance of that flexibility that we need. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:11

I mean, I love on writing. I love a craft book. I love it so much. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Like, I want to know how did you get this book written? Yeah. Partly because just I'm nosy. And this is why like I interview so many writers for my newsletter. Cause I'm like, how did you make this work? Yeah. But the other piece of that, the reason that I ask about that stuff is exactly like people go, Well, Stephen King writes like this, and so that must be how you succeed. And I go, Okay, well, here are 50 other writers talking about all of the very, very different ways that they get writing done, right? It does not have to look one way. The only thing that's gonna work is the thing that works for you.

SPEAKER_01: 16:45

Yeah. And plus, like Stephen King's one person in one period of time when things were different. So different, you know, we'll just give ourselves a little grace on that. But yes, speaking of everyone's practice being unique, are we suggesting that people show up tomorrow and they employ all these eight habits? Or do you recommend starting with one? Like, talk us through how to actually implement this.

SPEAKER_00: 17:07

Yeah, please don't like try to throw yourself in at the deep end on this. If you have been stuck in, like, you know, I really just need to figure out how to get out of this imposter syndrome thing and like adding eight new habits, it sounds like your head's gonna explode. Yeah. Don't explode your head, right? Start small. I think a really good way to start practicing this is choose one of these habits that seems really interesting or achievable to you and spend a week just tracking in your writing practice, outside of your writing practice, wherever that shows up for you. If you are really interested in the idea of persistence, right? Just for the next week, pay attention. When you get stuck or bored and you want to quit something, just notice like how do you respond in those moments? What are the things that help you see something through? And where do you feel like maybe you need more support? So then you start building that awareness of like, where am I with this habit now? And by doing that noticing, you're also practicing metacognition. So you kind of get a two for one, but it doesn't feel like you're adding a ton. Then maybe spend a week or two kind of practicing it a little more actively, right? Give yourself a little bit of an experiment, something to try that sort of targets something that feels like it's going to be really achievable, or if you're feeling bold, like something that feels like it's gonna be a little bit of a stretch and just see how that goes, right? Again, if persistence is the thing and you know, like, uh, you know, I have two hours set aside for writing, but I usually tap out after like an hour. See what happens if you try to stick out the full two-hour session, right? You make it up, do whatever feels like works for you, but run those little experiments, right? And you can do this, then pick another habit, right, for the next couple of weeks and just kind of go through them and start noticing where they show up in your life, where you feel like maybe I need to practice this a little bit more, maybe I need to run some experiments on this, and you will start to really notice they pop up in some very unexpected places. I bet.

SPEAKER_01: 19:07

And I heard the word you said earlier, you're like stretch yourself a little. I can imagine that trying to do this is not gonna feel comfortable at first for all of the eight habits. So I would like to encourage anyone who does try this to know that it's gonna be different, right? So we have to kind of stretch that muscle and it might feel frustrating, it might feel not good at first. And you know, there's so many things we could go into there, but just know that it's not like you're gonna show up tomorrow and employ persistence and your life has changed, right? Right, right.

SPEAKER_00: 19:35

Yes. And what I always tell people too is if you run an experiment and you try something and it does not work, that's not a failure. It's just information, right? It means you tried something that didn't work and now you know it doesn't work, so you can do something different. That's all that that has to mean.

SPEAKER_01: 19:50

Yeah. And I like to say they're feelings, not facts, right? So it's like whatever we take that information to mean is our feeling. It's not a fact. So So let's pretend I'm trying the persistence one and I fail at whatever I've tried to do that week, whatever. It's fine. That's information, like Bailey said. And I might feel bad about that, but that doesn't mean anything about who I am as a writer. It's just an experiment and I got information. So that's great. Yes. Do you have any examples? I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit of like writers you've worked with or in your own practice. And you don't have to name names, but like what happened when they noticed this or employed one of these habits?

SPEAKER_00: 20:27

Yeah, I have a number of clients. So I work with people as a book coach, and that's often in the writing process. And people tend to come to me where they're like, I have this book that I really want to finish. And I've just like, it's just not getting done. So how do I make the time for this? How do I build the skills that I need? And that's where we start working on some of these habits and talking about like, okay, what do your practices actually look like? Right. And once you start doing some of the diagnostic work with that and really building the skill of noticing not just the mindset challenges, but the ways that you can build a practice that works, the practice starts to work. Right. Like I've had people finish books in a handful of months that they have been working on for years. I had a client who it's such a cool book and I can't wait for her to finish it. But she went from having a couple of chapters kind of sketched out to like two-thirds of this book written very quickly, just because she started to notice what she needed as part of her writing practice that made it feel good, right? Not just, well, I should be doing it this way, but like, how can I build this so that it actually works with what my life looks like, what my brain needs, what feels satisfying to me as a writer. And her productivity just absolutely skyrocketed because of that, right? And so it's not so much that I'm like unlocking, you know, anything in people that's not already there. A lot of the time it's just giving them permission to write in the way that that they know is going to be successful for them. That often we get these messages that, like, well, that's the wrong way to do it. And so a lot of the work of these habits is figuring out what does actually work for you and how do you build the conditions to recreate that as often as possible.

SPEAKER_01: 22:14

Yeah. And I think, you know, a lot of writers are surprised sometimes when they either employ the habits or they get the outline done or whatever it is that makes their writing feel easier, feel more fun. They get surprised and they're like, I think I'm doing it wrong now because it feels fun and it feels easier. And I it sounds like you see that too, because I tell writers that all the time and they're like, I don't know about that. But I see it happen all the time. And it can feel like a very fun, rewarding, creative process, which is what we all want. So I love that these like mindset habits and like practical craft tools are there to help us do this. And it's just deciding what tool you're gonna take out of your toolbox that day and practice with. So these habits gave us just more to put in our toolbox. Yes. The other thing too, like, you know, a lot of writers when they're kind of stuck and they're they're like the writer you talked about, they're like, I don't know how to get out of this kind of rut I'm in. I don't know how to accomplish the goal I want. This is when a book coach or a developmental editor can come in and help. And through working with someone like you, Bailey, we develop some of these habits just by having to show up every week.

SPEAKER_00: 23:21

Yeah, just knowing, like, hey, Bailey's gonna be waiting for information about how much writing I'm getting done, right? Just having somebody else in your corner can make a huge difference. We have this idea, I think sometimes that like writing is something we have to do totally alone and we just have to muscle through it. And, you know, there's like oh the like discipline show up and hustle and like you have to sit there until your forehead bleeds or whatever, you know. And I'm like, that is just not the vibe. Like it's just that's not fun. You don't have to do this by yourself. It doesn't have to be painful, it can be the most wonderful time, it can feel like playtime, yeah, and you get a lot of work done. It doesn't mean it's never gonna be hard, but I think when we approach something with that more playful mindset, the parts that are hard become opportunities for growth and not just like us throwing ourselves at a brick wall. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 24:16

And I think, you know, the authors we look up to that are successful, I think they've somehow managed to integrate these habits and they've integrated the craft and now they've actually accomplished things like finishing drafts and publishing books. So they're doing all of these things that we talk about either when you're talking about mindset habits or craft habits, whatever. They are just people that have stuck out and done it, whether they realize it or not. So I imagine, and I, you know, I follow some authors on Instagram, and I know that not every successful author has like this practice that feels easy every day, but you know, they crank out books, and this is kind of how they're able to do it. So, you know, I feel like all of this advice you're giving today is just so spot on. And it's important to marry this stuff with the craft because so many writers, you know, they look up how to plot their novels or how to develop character backstory or whatever. And we teach a lot of that on this podcast. But if you don't have the mindset piece to go along with it, you're gonna crash and burn.

SPEAKER_00: 25:12

Yeah, this is something I talk about all the time. Because yeah, craft, like craft, so important, obviously, right? You want to write beautiful sentences and compelling stories, but if you don't have the kind of foundational mental habits that are gonna help you build all those skills and stick with it through the long haul, it's gonna be so much harder than it needs to be, right? The mindset piece is like it's like the foundation and everything else gets built on top of that.

SPEAKER_01: 25:37

Yeah, and we sometimes we don't know what we don't know until someone points that out or until we hear a podcast like this. So I'm so glad that you shared this with us, Bailey. And I know that people out there are gonna be like, I'm sold. How do I implement this? And I know that you have a free email series that people can sign up for to start figuring this out and implementing. So can you talk about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00: 25:57

Yeah, so this is just it's a free email course. It's an eight-day thing. You'll get an email every day with an overview of one of these habits of mind. It will include some suggestions of kind of how to start implementing it into your life, different exercises, things that you can practice. And then there's a lot of like reading and listening recommendations. So other podcasts to check out, books to look up, things to kind of bolster you as you start working on that habit. So it's just kind of a quick and dirty overview. If this is something where you're like, yeah, I really want to figure out more about how these habits fit into my practice, it's a really good launch pad.

SPEAKER_01: 26:33

Yeah, I love that. And just to let people know, we will put that link to your eight-day email course in the show notes and where to find Bailey all around the internet. But before we wrap up, is there any like last piece of advice you want to leave people with? Oh, that's a beautiful question. No pressure.

SPEAKER_00: 26:48

Yeah. I think stories are the truest form of magic that we have access to. Like in a very literal way, storytelling is a magical act. And if there is a story that you want to tell, do everything you can to tell it. Give yourself the permission to tell it. Let it be fun, let it be beautiful, and call in your whole support network to be with you during that process, right? You do not have to do this by yourself. Find your people. We are out here and we want to help.

SPEAKER_01: 27:20

Yeah. Stories are magic and they can change lives and they're so important. So I totally agree with all of that. Thank you so much, Bailey. It was such a pleasure having you on. And I know that you're gonna get a bunch of email signups because all of this was fascinating. So thank you so much. Thank you. This was awesome. All right, so that's it for this episode of the Fiction Writing Made Easy Podcast. Head over to savannaGilbo.com forward slash podcast for the complete show notes, including the resources I mentioned today, as well as bonus materials to help you implement what you've learned. And if you're ready to get more personalized guidance for your specific writing stage, whether you're just starting out, stuck somewhere in the middle of a draft, drowning in revisions, or getting ready to publish, take my free 30-second quiz at savannaGilbo.com forward slash quiz. You'll get a customized podcast playlist that'll meet you right where you're at and help you get to your next big milestone. Last but not least, make sure to follow this podcast in your podcast player of choice because I'll be back next week with another episode full of actionable tips, tools, and strategies to help you become a better writer. Until then, happy writing.