SPEAKER_01: 0:40

I knew where I wanted to get and I didn't necessarily have a time frame. I gave myself tons of grace, but I knew I want to have a finished book and I want to publish it, whatever that ended up looking like. And so these are the steps that I have to take to get there. And then I just worked backwards and put that in there. And I think absolutely anyone can do that. And I'm so excited with how my journey has gone and I'm so honored, but I'm not so much better. I'm not like a specifically just really gifted and talented writer, and it's amazing. I mean, I had never written a book before this. So I think just to be encouraged that this time last year I didn't even have a finished draft yet. And now I have an agent, my dream agent.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19

Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy podcast. My name is Savannah Gilbo, and I'm here to help you write a story that works. I want to prove to you that writing a novel doesn't have to be overwhelming. So each week I'll bring you a brand new episode with simple, actionable, and step-by-step strategies that you can implement in your writing right away. Whether you're brand new to writing or more of a seasoned author looking to improve your craft, this podcast is for you. So pick up a pen and let's get started. In today's episode, we're going behind the scenes of One Writer's Journey to hear how she went from a 30,000-word draft that didn't work to signing with her dream literary agent. My guest name is Maddie Unruh, and she's a mama four, a freelance copywriter, and a full-time volunteer at a local youth ministry. So to say Maddie is busy would be a total understatement. In this episode, she's going to share what it was like to feel completely overwhelmed by all the writing advice out there. She's going to share why her first attempt at drafting fell apart, and what finally clicked that helped her finish a 76,000-word draft in less than six months, all while raising four kids. Maddie's also going to share what it was like to pitch agents at a writing conference, how it felt when every single one of them requested her full manuscript, and what happened when she received three offers of representation. So if you're a busy parent or someone who's tried to write a novel before and it just didn't work out, then this episode is for you. So without further ado, let's dive right into my conversation with Maddie Unru. Hi, Maddie. Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy Podcast. I'm so excited to have you here today. Thank you so much. I'm so honored and excited to be on. Tell listeners a little bit about who you are, what you do, and things like that.

SPEAKER_01: 3:02

Yeah, I'm Maddie. I'm a contemporary romance author, but I work full-time with a youth-oriented ministry in Huntington Beach, which is so much fun. And then I am also a freelance copywriter on the side. And we have four kids. Our oldest is seven. We have twins who are five, and our youngest is two.

SPEAKER_00: 3:20

And so you said you copyright. What made you want to write fiction, or was this like a lifelong thing for you?

SPEAKER_01: 3:25

Yeah, writing fiction has always been a lifelong dream for me for sure. Um, I was really, I've always loved to read, I think most of us writers love to read, the Harry Potter series, Hunger Games, a book called Redeeming Love. Some books like that inspired me a lot, even in elementary school and middle school. I always knew I wanted to write fiction someday, but it always felt like a someday kind of dream. And I always felt like eventually I'll get around to that. So to actually be taking steps in that direction is so exciting.

SPEAKER_00: 3:54

Yeah. Talk to me about your first couple of times, like trying to actually realize this dream. Did you go out and research all the things like most of us do? Like, what did you do to make this happen?

SPEAKER_01: 4:03

No, I probably should have, but I just sat down one day and was like, today's the day I write my book, um, which was great. But I wrote, I want to say like 30,000 words, and then felt like I don't know what's happening in this story. We're just kind of not really doing anything. I have big long scenes of people just sort of sitting and thinking, and I think all the normal things you do the first time. I thought I was gonna be a pantser, probably just because that sounded easier to me. So I'm like, we'll just see where the story takes me. But the story didn't take me anywhere. And then somebody else had recommended that I dive into podcasts and books and sort of figure that out. So I paused my book for a while, found a few different podcasts, found a few different um books to read. It's really overwhelming when you first start researching how to write a book. There was so much information. But um, when I found your podcast, which I really just came across at random, the way that you were teaching was so simple and clear. And there was like clear steps and expectations and frameworks, but it wasn't super rigid. And it just like made so much sense to my brain. So I paused my 30,000 draft of nothing and binge listened to literally all of your episodes. It probably took a month to get through them all. And then I started all the way over and then started my whole book over. And it went a lot better that time.

SPEAKER_00: 5:24

That's so funny. I love that. And it's so funny you say about 30,000 words because if we listen to kind of all these past student spotlight episodes, it's usually around 30,000, 35,000 words that things start breaking down.

SPEAKER_01: 5:35

Yeah, I was like, because that got me through act one where you have all the ideas and you're going, and then you sort of, I mean, I didn't know it was called act two, but you're entering that, and I'm like, um, I know what's gonna happen at the climax.

SPEAKER_00: 5:46

Yeah, you're like, but I don't know how to get there. So we'll see. Yeah. Um, okay, so that's awesome. And then yeah, we met in I think January of 2023 when you joined Notes to Novel, and you're like, okay, I'm gonna take myself seriously. We had you on the podcast before you submitted a little clip and you were like, I decided to give myself permission to take myself seriously as a writer. So talk about that a little bit because I know there are busy moms and dads out there who were like, should I spend the time? Should I take time away from my kids? Should I spend the money, right? Should I invest in this? How did you deal with that?

SPEAKER_01: 6:17

Yeah, it was well, I mean, we have four little kids. I think in January, right when I started Notes Novel, I found out I was pregnant with my fourth baby. And so money's really tight. It was a big undertaking to sign up for that. But I just had a good conversation with my husband. He's amazing, he's super supportive. And he's like, if this is what God's called you to do, if this is what you were made for, of course we're gonna figure that out. And so it just felt like this shift from kind of a hobby of like, I think I might write a book. I think that would be something fun to do to for investing in this financially, which was a big deal for us, as well as just the time that it would take to go through the whole course. And I already knew how long it had taken me to write 30,000 words of nothing. So to understand what I was about to sign up for when I'm pregnant with our fourth baby, it felt like going ahead and moving forward with that was just a big step in this is an investment in something that I believe I'm meant to do long term. And so it's worth investing in. And if I'm going to invest in it, I'm going to see it through.

SPEAKER_00: 7:17

And I love that. I think you have definitely have that like tenacity that people always ask me, like, what separates the writers who finish from the ones that don't. And I'm like, you just have to be willing to make it work, no matter the speed bumps. And I'm sure there were speed bumps along the way. One of them is ditching a 30,000-word draft. That was painful. Yeah, it's always painful. But I'm sure in hindsight, you're like, thank goodness I did that because look at where I landed. Um, which is spoiler alert, she's landed her dream agent. We'll talk about that later. Yes. But what was it like going through the course and talk about like how did you manage setting aside time? I'm sure it was great that your family was very supportive. But you know, did you have to like block out time in your calendar? How'd you how'd you manage that?

SPEAKER_01: 7:57

Yeah, my family is very supportive, but I was still pregnant. My twins were still two, and my oldest was still, gosh, he was probably four. So no one was even in school yet. So as much as my husband's like all in, I'm still home with the kids uh 247, which is the best. I love doing that, but it doesn't super lend itself to like quiet blocks of creativity. Um I did most of the class on audio form because um if you sign up for the course, there is video and you can watch and go along that way, but there's also um just like a podcast basically. So I would take all the kids to the park and have my have one AirPod in and be taking notes on a Word document on my phone. So I listen to most of the course that way. And then I also just get up early. That's how I've done all my writing, and that's how I did that course too. So not every day, but at least three days a week, I would get up at 4:30 or 5 a.m. and just sit and do the stuff that I had to be sitting to do. And that worked really well for me. I know some people are night owls, and so it's better for them if like after the kids are in bed to have that time. But my brain is like useless after like 3 p.m. every day. So I found that just biting the bullet and getting up early worked and um it was really fun. I ended up really enjoying those times. It's quiet. I'm like fresh and creative. I would drink like three cups of coffee every morning, though. By the time I'm done, I'm like getting the kids up, my heart's pounding. I'm like, I'm afraid today, full of anxiety. But anyway, it was really fun.

SPEAKER_00: 9:24

Oh no, yeah, anxiety is never good. But I mean, look what came from it, I guess. Not that we're gonna recommend everyone go drink three cups of coffee. Maybe chai tea. Yeah, maybe chai tea or green tea or something. But okay, so you set aside the time, you made it work at the park, you got up early, you did all the things. When you were in the course, I know you kind of came at this as I think I'm a pantser. That sounds more comfortable for me. And then I know that you kind of did a hard pivot and you started loving outlining. So talk about that or any other aha moments that really like helped you get to the end of that draft.

SPEAKER_01: 9:55

Yeah, it's really your process just was so right for my personality and my brain. And so it felt like a clear roadmap without ever feeling super rigid because I am definitely a rule follower. So if someone had given me you need to do all these things, I would do them, but I feel like panicked by them sometimes. And so you're so great at reminding, you know, this basically I would tell myself a lot, this outline serves me. I don't serve the outline. So I change it at any time. I'm not like a slave to this thing, it's just part of the process. And I found it really fun to be creative on the outline and to test drive different ideas without the pressure of, I mean, because I had already written 30,000 words. So I know it happens, or I already knew it happened if I just followed an idea wherever it led and then it didn't work. So doing that on the outline started to feel a lot safer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 10:48

Cause you're dealing with less words and pages and all that.

SPEAKER_01: 10:51

Yeah. And then because my writing sessions were short and I had to do them at the specific times, it I just didn't have the time and space to sit there and try to think up, what should I write today? Like it just needed to be, this is the next scene. I'm going to write it. Um, yeah, which was great.

SPEAKER_00: 11:08

Yeah. And so what Maddie's talking about that we do in the course is we we map out the outline and then it changes how you show up to your desk because instead of saying, well, I just wrote scene seven and now I have to figure out for 30 minutes what happens in scene eight, you already know because of your outline. So talk about like what was your timeline like because your baby showed up somewhere in the middle of your first draft.

SPEAKER_01: 11:30

Yes, my baby showed up. So I think that I was trying to look over before we recorded this so I'd have accurate numbers. I wrote act one, probably in like February of that year. And the act one was a lot the same as I had done for the original draft, but I had some new subplots and things to weave through. So I wrote act one in a few weeks and then just morning sickness and you know, was really tired at the end of that pregnancy. So wasn't able to get up for my work sessions, and then I had a newborn. I took like a year and a half break away from my book. But what was so helpful is I never one time felt like I didn't finish that or like I've abandoned it. I always knew it's there, it's waiting for me. I have the whole book planned out. I know how to make that progress. I'm just gonna pop back in um as soon as he's sleeping through the night. And I did, and it was totally fine. It was funny because one day I just realized, hey, he's sleeping 12 hours, I'm back. And so I just opened my computer and started again. And then I had finished my book by um December.

SPEAKER_00: 12:27

Yeah. So I think you said it was like six months of total writing time, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_01: 12:32

I think it was less when I went back and watched it.

SPEAKER_00: 12:34

I think it was a little less of actual like days that I sat at my computer. That's amazing. And I love, like, I'm sure there are moms and dads out there that are just listening to you, going, wow, the the idea that you could have this outline that you still loved when you sat back down, even though you might have had new ideas and things like that, but your story didn't really change in a fundamental way. And it was there waiting for you. And you picked up and you had a bunch of steam, and then you finished and you ended up with what was it like a 76,000-word, pretty well fleshed out draft?

SPEAKER_01: 13:03

Yeah, I think my first draft was 76,000.

SPEAKER_00: 13:06

Yeah. And so when I know you said when you dipped back in after your baby came and you took that year and a half off, I think you said you re-listened to the course. So pretty much the same way you listened to it the first time. Yeah. And then you just kind of refamiliarized yourself and dug back into the outline.

SPEAKER_01: 13:21

Yeah. And I think it also helped that throughout that break I took, um, I continued listening to your podcast episodes as they came out. And I can't remember, I think I joined the story lab once I got back to my computer. It was just kind of a fresh wave of telling myself I'm doing this again, um, which really helped. But continuing to listen helped me feel like I hadn't ever abandoned it. I was like marinating on new ideas and biting my time. And I was listening to lots of books in my genre during that break. So that helped a lot. But yeah, then when I was ready, I re-listened to the course the same way I had the first time. And then I just started again and finished.

SPEAKER_00: 13:58

And that's amazing. And one thing, because you you mentioned genre. Um, and I know you write closed door sweet romance with a Christian angle to it. Was there any challenge like adapting the genre cheat sheets and the guidance in the course to your specific genre?

SPEAKER_01: 14:12

Oh, no, not at all. I feel like that's what I love about the way that you describe genre is you you have your romance genre outline, but that could literally work for a Christian fiction romance, which is what I wrote, or a romanticy or a spicy romance, or a romantic sci-fi. Like it's just so broad. And you're good at using different examples, which really helped because it's like I think you had Twilight on there and Pride and Prejudice, and those couldn't be any more different books. So it just helped to be like what's necessary in a romance genre is gonna be necessary in any romance. And then I get to add the faith elements because that's my niche.

SPEAKER_00: 14:49

Yeah, which is so cool. And we'll talk about that a little bit more in a second. But let's go back to you had the finished draft, and then you were like, all right, now I need to edit this thing because I know I want to pursue traditional publishing, right? That was your goal from day one.

SPEAKER_01: 15:02

Yeah, I was really open to indie publishing. I think because I had built a pretty good following on Bookstagram, I was like, hey, indie publishing could be, I mean, any publishing can be a valid option for anyone, but um, marketing didn't seem as scary because I had a an in with my audience. So I was very like, I wanted to be prepared for traditional publishing and I'm gonna query agents I would be really excited to work with. And if something works out with them, then that's amazing. And if not, I can move forward on my own, was kind of how I felt. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:33

Okay, so tell me what editing was like with that in mind.

SPEAKER_01: 15:36

Yes, I mean, I just followed, like I said, I love, I love a rule to follow, I love a box to put myself in. So I followed the exact framework. I took my break, I reread my draft, and that was like a hilarious up and down experience. So I'd be sitting there like, this is just amazing. I can't believe I wrote this in the very next scene. You're like, well, it's been fun to pretend I was gonna be a writer, and that's all. Um, but I reread the whole thing. I kept, I printed it out, which was really fun. That just made it feel real to hold all these pages I'd written. And I kept a document open and wrote down all my ideas and all my thoughts because of the outline um that I had pressure tested pretty well, and because of all the work we had done in your course on learning how to write a scene. The first draft was in pretty good shape. So that was really fun. The story level edit, which I did first, uh, really only took like maybe a month because the story had worked pretty well. There was a couple things that as I reread it, was like, that's kind of weak. And can I think of a better way to do that? But it wasn't like a convoluted mess. I it had followed a story arc already. That was really helpful. So the story level edit wasn't too bad. And then I did a scene level edit, which was more fun for me. And then I got beta readers, which was um so helpful. And the beta readers helped me do another story level edit based off of their feedback, which I think made the draft like a thousand times stronger. And then I did a line level edit, which is my favorite.

SPEAKER_00: 17:10

Oh, interesting. I wouldn't have guessed that from you, but that's funny. Okay, so you said, because I think there are people with that their bells are probably going off right now listening to you talk about this. You said you wrote this draft in less than six months. And it was actually like, yeah, there were parts where you're like, oh my God, I can't believe I wrote this. This is crazy. But overall it worked. And I think there's this myth out there that the faster you go, the worse your draft is going to be. But you're literally proof that that's not true. So can you just talk about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_01: 17:39

Yeah, totally. Um yeah, I think that the faster I went, the lower quality the writing was. And I had to be okay with that. Is these aren't pretty sentences. I'm not like doing my best metaphors, which is probably why I liked the line editing, is because then I got to be like, I know the story is good, so I know I'm not wasting time making this sense pretty. Um, so I enjoyed that. But the faster I went, the worse maybe my writing quality was. But the story, because I learned so much about seeing the story itself was solid. So I knew um, because of the romance genre conventions and all those things, what needed to happen at certain points of the story. And so even if I decided later on a different way to accomplish that moment, it didn't change the story arc because we still had to have our all is lost. So even if later, and I did later I decided on a slightly different all is lost, but then I didn't have to go back and change the rest of the book. I just changed that scene and maybe one or two around it kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00: 18:37

Yeah, which is I love hearing you talk about this because I do think there's a way to have this result for everybody, right? It's like it just because people say write fast, do a fast draft, it does not need to be a poor quality draft. Like Maddie said, the sentences might need a little love, but the story can actually work and read more like a third or fourth draft in terms of the story. And then, like you said, you cut down on your editing time quite a bit. And was there anything that kind of stood out for the from the beta reader feedback that's just worth mentioning?

SPEAKER_01: 19:07

Yeah, my beta reader feedback was really fun. So um they they really liked it. And they weren't, because these aren't writers, they weren't necessarily saying, Oh, what a good understanding of scene that you have, but they they would comment on the pacing feeling really good and um one thing leading to another. And it always felt like they're they're commenting on narrative drive, but they didn't have that terminology. But they felt like they couldn't put it down and everything made sense. There wasn't random scenes, so it was super encouraging.

SPEAKER_00: 19:36

That's so fun. I love that. And were your beta readers people you had met online or who were they?

SPEAKER_01: 19:42

Yeah, I found beta readers. So I run like through my Bookstarram a book club, and you can tell at a book club who has a really good understanding of story because they always have good ideas on like, or they're pointing out the flaws and the holes in books, and they just have a good. So I asked like five or six of them if they would be willing to um read mine. So a couple were people that I knew in person, but um, some were not as well.

SPEAKER_00: 20:04

That's so fun. I love that. Okay, so then let's fast forward. You edited again um and you sharpened up that story level edit again, and you went through the process. And then at some point, you decided to go to a conference and you had won a contest in here somewhere. You also pitched agents. Talk about this phase, kind of pre getting the agent you're with now.

SPEAKER_01: 20:25

Yeah, so I finished my first draft, like I said, in December. And I got an email from like a writer's association that I'm in about a Genesis contest, which is for unpublished writers only. And your book has to be written, but you only submit the first 15. Pages. So I'm like, I think I could do that. You know, like the book doesn't have to be perfect. The book just has to exist. And the first 15 pages have to be as perfect as I can make them. So I decided to enter that mostly because you got agent and publishing house feedback on your first 15 pages. So I'm like, that's just like a no later. Yeah, no loose situation. So I decided to enter that. So I my first draft existed, and I took the first 15 pages through the scene and line level edit, but ignored the rest of my book for then.

SPEAKER_00: 21:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 21:12

Submitted to that contest and then just went back to editing as normal. And I found out in uh May, I think, that I was a semifinalist, which was the top seven, which was super exciting. Um, because there's hundreds of people who enter that contest. And so my genre was contemporary romance, which is also a very big genre. So I was super honored and excited about that. And because I was a semifinalist, I got to go to the conference where they would announce the finalists and winners. And at the conference, you can pitch agents in person. And so that was exciting and also scary because I felt like I really needed to finish my draft really fast. And I it pushed definitely pushed up the timeline I probably would have given myself to edit my book and be ready for querying and all that. But I'm glad it did. So I went to that conference in September and I ended up filing. So I did it when, but I ended up top three, which was exciting. So cool. And I pitched to four agents and one publishing house directly. And they all asked for my full manuscript, which was so affirming and so exciting.

SPEAKER_00: 22:15

Yeah, that's so cool. And it's I remember kind of because you're in the story lab, which for anyone who who's listening who doesn't know what that is, that is my membership where notes to novel graduates go once they're done with the course. And I remember like Maddie was updating us in real time, like, I think I'm gonna submit. And then it was like, holy cow, I'm a semifinalist. And then it was, I'm a finalist in real time. So that was really exciting. I'm sure people listening are wondering, like, what do you think it was about your pages that made the biggest difference? Was it the scene writing? Was it starting at the right place? Is there what do you think like stood out the most?

SPEAKER_01: 22:46

Yeah, it's so fun. I got the feedback from the first round and then a second round because I was a finalist. And it seems like it was the understanding of scene which got me the most uh kind of ahead of other applicants. Because there's so many good and beautiful writers and there's so many amazing story ideas out there. But learning how to write a scene is really like the skeleton of your whole book, like you talk about all the time, and it's that pacing and that forward momentum and all of that. So I think that based off of their feedback, that is probably what did the best. I don't know exactly because it's so subjective. I'm sure a lot of those books were beautiful and wonderfully written.

SPEAKER_00: 23:25

But um Yeah, but I'll validate you a little on that because I also see a lot of openings and it's usually, you know, a lot of info dumping, a lot of the common mistakes that people will make. And it's like it takes a while if to get to a scene, if there even is a scene. So I definitely would agree. If if you asked me point blank, I would have said scenes as well. But what did it feel like to kind of get that validation on your idea and your writing? Because that's a huge deal.

SPEAKER_01: 23:48

Yeah, it was a big deal. I told my husband, I mean, just being a semifinalist was really exciting. But then to go to that conference, there's hundreds of other writers there. And it's funny because um, I'm not, I'm 30, so I'm not like super young, but in the writing world, that is kind of young. I've realized most people tend to write their first books in their 40s or their 50s just when you have a little more time and space in your life. Um, so to enter that room of hundreds of writers, most of them with way more experience than I was. I was telling my head, I love Taylor Swift, that it felt like this, the Taylor Swift, You're on your own kids song, where she says something like, you know, I get there just to find out my dreams aren't rare. I feel like it was that experience of you're the best among your friends, or you're like the only person with this dream in your little crew. And then to enter that world is scary. And then to find out I did belong there was just so affirming and validating.

SPEAKER_00: 24:39

Yeah, it's like a whole life-changing experience, I feel like.

SPEAKER_01: 24:42

It really was.

SPEAKER_00: 24:43

Yeah, and it's such a payoff, too, to know that all the time and the energy and the money that you spent kind of putting into this dream actually paid off.

SPEAKER_01: 24:52

Yeah. Huge. Yeah, it was huge. It was so exciting.

SPEAKER_00: 24:55

Yeah, and it didn't stop there. So then let's fast forward. You have now landed who you say is your dream agent. How did we get from the conference to that?

SPEAKER_01: 25:04

Yeah. So at the conference, I had, as I said, four agents um request my full draft, which was so fun. And then so I went home and then decided, well, I might as well just start querying because I'm gonna have to query or at least send my proposal and draft to these agents. So of the four I met, I think that I sent it to two of them because um two just kind of get the vibes. You're like, I'm not sure if we would enjoy working together based off of the ideas they had or um whatever it was. So I sent it to two of those as well as five others that I would have been really excited to work with, which I found these agents just by looking up who some of the my favorite writers who are doing what I want to be doing in that space, who represents them. So Christian fiction is its own little niche, so there's pros and cons to that because there's not as many people writing in that niche, of course, which helps with not having as much competition. But there's also not that many agents who represent that niche. So um pros and cons for sure. But I queried seven and um three I never heard back from, which I think is normal. One of them was someone I met at the conference that invited me to send it, but I never heard back from her. And then of the other four, I got an offer of representation based off of just my proposal, which surprised me a lot. So yeah, like we had a we had a fun call. And then I had an offer, just like a straight offer based on my full draft, which was so exciting. And then, um, and that was another agent I met in person. And then the agent I ended up signing with, I had a revise and resubmit request from her, which she basically said she loved my story, she loved my writing, but she wanted to see some adjustment in how I had presented the faith elements, which after rereading my draft and praying about it, I felt really good about her direction. So I went ahead and made those changes and submitted to her, and then she offered, which was so exciting. And my fourth one came back with another revise and resubmit, but it was when I already had the other three offers. So I um decided to move forward with one of the offers I already had. But so fun.

SPEAKER_00: 27:08

And how did you decide? Uh you have three offers, which I'm sure people listening are like, that is the dream.

SPEAKER_01: 27:14

How did you then decide who to go with? I got to have a call with each of them, which was so fun. And yeah, just asked a ton of questions about where they saw my book fitting in the market, what edits they would want to make, how they communicated with clients, where they would want to submit it. And um, just Jen, who is my agent, heard's lined up just exactly with what I want for my career. And she's with Books and Such Larry Agency, which in the Christian fiction world is one of the top agencies. So I was so honored. I mean, I was honored by all of the agents who wanted to work with me. But yeah, it was really exciting.

SPEAKER_00: 27:47

Yeah, that is so cool. And I remember, I still remember your post in the Facebook group and I saw your Instagram and I was like fangirling over here. I was not surprised because I know I knew all your hard work and I knew all the great results you had, but it's such a great feeling when you're like, I did it, I got the agent, and everything you wanted happened.

SPEAKER_01: 28:04

Yeah, I mean, I think it's still surprising because so many people are so talented and work really hard and don't end up with that result. So I was I was still surprised. I was still so excited.

SPEAKER_00: 28:15

Yeah, and I'm sure you still, some of it's like not quite real yet.

SPEAKER_01: 28:18

Yeah, I definitely, whenever I'm talking about Jen or get an email or working on the proposal, I definitely feel like when you first get married and you're like my husband and you feel like you're lying, I'm like doing that with my agent. I'm like, just have an email from my agent. No big deal.

SPEAKER_00: 28:32

I love that so much. Okay, well, we'll keep everyone posted on like when Maddie's book is gonna come out and all of that. Um, but when you look back on kind of your whole journey from, I think it was back in 2023 of you and your husband deciding, okay, this is a serious dream you have, we're gonna take it seriously. You signed up to notes to novel, you um had your baby, you finished your draft, you edited your draft, you uh became a semifinalist, then a finalist, and then you queried and got an agent. If you're talking to the aspiring authors who are listening, what stands out to you about your journey that you want to impart on them?

SPEAKER_01: 29:06

Oh my goodness. It's a big question, I know. Yes. I think you said it in the beginning, and some an author I really respect said this to me when I was first getting started as well. But she basically said the difference between aspiring authors and successful authors is just discipline and the willingness to keep going and make the time and do the thing. And I feel like that probably sums up my entire journey with trying to write this book and then writing it and then querying and then building um a newsletter and all the other stuff that you have to do because it's so much work, really, when you look at it that it's so overwhelming. But if you break it down, I don't spend more than, I don't know, four or five hours a week on this particular dream. And that's all the aspects that includes Bookstagram and newsletter and all the stuff that I'm doing now. So it is a small chunk of your life, but it takes kind of the intentionality and discipline to segment that and when am I gonna do it and make a plan and then stick to that plan with like tons of grace. Obviously, I had a whole baby and yeah, stopped writing for a ton of time, or I would start my writing thing and then one of them would wake up and whatever. Like there was tons of grace for the process, but then to not just be like, oh, this week is shot, but to show up to my next writing session and see what happened.

SPEAKER_00: 30:21

Yeah. And I know that people listening are gonna be like, Maddie, you make it sound so easy because we're doing the highlight reel. And I know, like you were just saying, there's life stuff that comes in the way. But was there anything like significant as far as a roadblock or a speed bump that you had to deal with?

SPEAKER_01: 30:35

That's a good question. Um, I mean, I feel like there wasn't like a huge other than obviously I had a baby, but that's like an exciting, an exciting roadblock. But everyday life. Yeah. But um, like I don't have health issues, no, no tragedies happened during those two years, thankfully. But it was just like daily speed bumps. I mean, I've got four little kids. So someone's always growing up or someone's didn't finish their homework or whatever. There's tons. And we're we work full-time with the ministry, which is so involved. There's always people over at our house, we're always like meeting needs, which I love doing, but lots of daily speed bumps and lots of writing sessions that I would really intend to do a lot on and end up mostly on Instagram. So it's like it was real life too. But I think that that's why it's the discipline that gets you there and not the bursts of energy, because the discipline had me, even if Tuesday's writing session was nothing, it just had me there again on Thursday. And eventually that all adds up to a taking it day by day, session by session.

SPEAKER_00: 31:35

And then, of course, like I think you're a great example of making use of every single tool out there to help you accomplish your dream and being open to doing new things, like outlining as someone who thought you were a pancer.

SPEAKER_01: 31:47

Yeah. And I would say, did I think I was a pantser or did I just want to be a pantser? Because then I could just start writing my book. Probably that one. But yeah, I mean, the whole thing is learning new things because once you have a book, you have to edit a book and then you have to market a book, and querying is terrifying. And meeting with those agents, I don't think my heart has ever been pounding so hard. It's just scary. It's like offering somebody this dream you've worked years on, and then they can say whatever they want in those 15 months. So they can say a very quick and easy no.

SPEAKER_00: 32:16

That is scary.

SPEAKER_01: 32:17

It's scary.

SPEAKER_00: 32:18

Yeah, and I think also like you're willing to kind of be uncomfortable with the learning and the doing because the dream means so much to you. You know, if it didn't mean that much, you would probably let your writing times go a little bit more and not show up to the page every week and things like that. Totally.

SPEAKER_01: 32:34

I feel like it just had to underscores I believe I'm made to do this. So if I believe that, then as much as I wish I could just write a little book and send it out and it does amazing, there's a million things I have to do that I'm not necessarily made to do. Like marketing, who's I mean, I just don't, I think most writers are introverts. We don't want to do that, but it is part of it. And so just accepting that to do the thing I want to do, there will be lots of things I have to do.

SPEAKER_00: 32:59

Yeah. And you'd rather face the discomfort of doing those things than the discomfort of not living your purpose. Exactly. Yeah. And so speaking of things that we don't love doing, let's talk about marketing because I know that was a selling point almost either way you look at it. So if you were to self-publish, you would have had that built-in platform, like you said. I know it also came up with agents. So do you want to talk, like tell everyone what your platform is? You said Bookstagram, but what do you do on there? When did you start building it? Just give us the, you know, the overview of that.

SPEAKER_01: 33:29

Yeah. So I I have 17,000 on Bookstagram, which isn't like a huge platform in the Bookstagram space, but in the Christian niche, it is. I started that based off of a um story lab training that was talking about marketing and was talking about thinking, I think whoever was on was talking about Instagram and they were talking about newsletters. And I just like my path of least resistance at that time was Instagram. I'm like, that sounds easier. At least I have a, you know, normal Instagram. At least I understand that platform a little more. Newsletters seem really scary at the time. So I started it because I think on that training, they talked about starting whatever platform you're gonna do way before you need it so that there's not pressure. So I finished my first draft. And in the like two or three or four-week break that you take before reading it, I was like, I'll just start one. And so I started a Bookstagram account and it's really bad. If you scroll back to my first post, it's just I'm like, I don't know, I'm just putting something out there. I was just trying different things. But um it's ended up being one of my favorite parts of the whole process because I've connected with so many readers who love to read the same things. It feels like having a ton of like friends who love to read now. Didn't feel like that at first. And sometimes it's still really hard or I didn't want to make stuff or whatever. But yeah, so I ended up, I didn't know exactly what it was gonna be when I started, but just made a ton of videos and um well, I think I started with still posts because I didn't want to talk in front of a camera at first. But just got used to making a ton of things and then I started to figure out what people were responding to or what things I enjoyed making. And so now it's a Christian bookstogram, but I review um no and low spice regular, like general market, usually romance or romantic, because that's what I like to read, as well as um specifically Christian fiction.

SPEAKER_00: 35:18

Yeah, and I will link to that in the show notes. You guys can go check out Maddie's Instagram, but it's very interesting because I'm sure people are wondering like, do you talk about your writing? Your book's not even out, how do you deal with this? And then and what's cool is you it's really about what you read and your reviews, like you said, but you're also building an audience who will be ready for your book when it comes out, even though you're not talking about it too much.

SPEAKER_01: 35:40

Yeah, I would say like I post every day something, and of those like say 14 posts in two weeks, maybe one will touch on the fact that I'm writing. And rarely is it about my book because now that I'm going the traditional publishing route, we're probably a year and a half away from ever having that to offer. So I can't for a year and a half be like, and it's still coming, I promise. So I talk a little bit about like the writing process or whatever, um, whenever I have something to say. But because I'm recommending and reviewing books that I love, I found other people who love to read what I'm reading. And so I'm building, I've built so much authority with that group of people because they trust what I recommend. And so a lot of people are really excited to read my book. So hopefully, and you're just doing what you love.

SPEAKER_00: 36:23

So you're sharing what you love, which is makes it so much easier.

SPEAKER_01: 36:25

Yeah, and that helps because every time I buy a book, I'm like, this is like basically a write-off to my this is for work.

SPEAKER_00: 36:33

Yeah, but you're like, let's go back to the bookstore.

SPEAKER_01: 36:35

Yeah, we have to.

SPEAKER_00: 36:37

I love that. I love that. Okay, so we'll link to that so you guys can check out Maddie's Instagram and follow her. But let's like kind of zoom out and just say for the author who wants to be where you are next year, what advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_01: 36:51

Yes, I feel like it's just make a plan and do the plan. Like that was my whole advice was I knew where I wanted to get. And I didn't necessarily have a time frame. I gave myself tons of grace, but I knew I want to have a finished book and I want to publish it, whatever that ended up looking like. And so these are the steps that I have to take to get there. And then I just worked backwards and put that in there. And I think anyone, absolutely anyone, can do that. And I'm so excited with how my journey has gone and I'm so honored, but I'm not um, I'm not so much better. I'm not like a specifically just really gifted and talented writer, and it's amazing. I mean, I had never written a book before this. So I think just to be encouraged that this time last year I didn't even have a finished draft yet. And now I have an agent.

SPEAKER_00: 37:36

My dream agent. Your dream agent's so fun. And people might think, well, you're a copywriter, so you're good with words. They're two totally different skills, right? Oh, they don't even overlap at all. Yeah. So when she says she is, and I I I love and I hate using the word average because I I love average people and I am an average person. Yes. Um, but I say average with love. You are an average person with four kids who has no prior experience, and look what you've done in just a few short years. So if Maddie can do it, you guys can do it.

SPEAKER_01: 38:06

And I think it's so fun because we're in a day and age where there's so much information that could be bad too. But yeah, you can learn how to do anything. You don't, I mean, I actually did go to school with an English degree, but I think in all those four years, I took one creative writing class ever and it was on poetry. So it it didn't, that didn't help. I I have I haven't learned how to write a book from my college experience or anything like that. All of it has just been in self-directed, like online opportunities. Mostly at this point, I'm like pretty loyal to your way of doing it. Not even because, oh, it's the best way. I mean, it is for me, but I think once you find something that works, you should probably stick to it. But stick with it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 38:43

Yeah. I agree. So for anyone listening, whatever that method is for you, it doesn't have to be mine, but any method that works for you, stick with it. Because that'll get you farther than researching until you're blue in the face. But Maddie, what is next for you? Are you working on book two now? Yeah, so we are um making edits.

SPEAKER_01: 39:00

It's really fun because my agent had so few edits, which is so encouraging. I was ready to dive in. She's like, what if we change this name? I'm like, yeah, no problem. Yeah. So I'm finishing up edits. I expect to be done with those in a week or so. We are working on my proposal, and then my book will likely go on submission in January. And then yeah, I'll start book two. I have a few different ideas, but now um I have to run them by my agent and get them green lighted. So I love that.

SPEAKER_00: 39:26

Well, we'll have to do a follow-up with you so we can see like you already went really fast through all this. What will book two look like now that you've kind of finished book one, made the mistakes, gone through the process, and all that. So we'll have to have you back. But Maddie, thank you so much for sharing your story. And we will link to all the things Maddie mentioned today in the show notes. But thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01: 39:47

Thank you so much for having me. It was so much fun.

SPEAKER_00: 39:50

All right, so that's it for this episode of the Fiction Writing Made Easy Podcast. Head over to savannagilbo.com forward slash podcast for the complete show notes, including the resources I mentioned today, as well as bonus materials to help you implement what you've learned. And if you're ready to get more personalized guidance for your specific writing stage, whether you're just starting out, stuck somewhere in the middle of a draft, drowning in revisions, or getting ready to publish, take my free 30-second quiz at savannagilbo.com forward slash quiz. You'll get a customized podcast playlist that'll meet you right where you're at and help you get to your next big milestone. Last but not least, make sure to follow this podcast in your podcast player of choice because I'll be back next week with another episode full of actionable tips, tools, and strategies to help you become a better writer. Until then, happy writing.

unknown: 40:40

Yeah.