Angela Haas: 0:00

Everyone's style works for everyone, but for me, I need just like bullet points Right and I wanted to do better. I wanted the framework. I wanted to learn how to write a better book, to organize it and to get it together, instead of just at first, I just had fiends floating around, I didn't really know what I was doing and so, taking that course, I was able to go step by step and start from the beginning, instead of just floundering.

Savannah Gilbo: 0:31

Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy podcast. My name is Savannah Gilbo and I'm here to help you write a story that works. I want to prove to you that writing a novel doesn't have to be overwhelming, so each week, I'll bring you a brand new episode with simple, actionable and step-by-step strategies that you can implement in your writing right away. So whether you're brand new to writing or more of a seasoned author looking to improve your craft, this podcast is for you. So pick up a pen and let's get started. In today's episode, we're going behind the scenes of one writer's journey to hear how she published not one, but two books in the last six months. One's a really fun space opera that's the second book in a series and the other is a romantic comedy.

Savannah Gilbo: 1:15

My guest's name is Angela Haas, and she is a small business owner turned author of three published books. You'll hear about what it was like to switch from writing science fiction to writing romantic comedy. What happened when Angela had not one, but two terrible experiences with book editors one who called her book spoofy and the other who randomly rewrote passages of her story and how, despite how devastating both experiences were, angela did not give up. Also, angela shares what made the tricky advice to show, don't tell finally stick, and how she approaches outlining as a diehard pantser and why she ultimately decided that self-publishing was the right path for her. But before we dive into all of that, I want to read you the back cover copy of the two books that we're going to talk about today. So the first is called Seconds to Oblivion and it's the second book in Angela's Keepers of the Universe series. So this is her sci-fi space opera book, and the back cover says In a battle for the galaxy, love and duty collide.

Savannah Gilbo: 2:15

To escape the pain of her past, marlene Mason settles into a mundane life Work, sleep, repeat, nothing to challenge her, no decisions to be made. When a harrowing traffic accident awakens powers that shatter her safe place, she is propelled into an adventure forcing her to confront the ghosts that haunt her, while the vengeful Zuldari commander, pharaoh, starts playing dangerous games with other people's lives In war. Love is complicated. Commander Callahan Merritt has a mission, and it doesn't include fully surrendering to his feelings for Marlene. For Cal, it's easier to be a soldier than a lover. As Pharaoh's malevolent grip tightens on Marlene and her allies, the line between friend and foe blurs. Cal must learn to put love over duty and Marlene must trust in her newfound strength to save her homeworld from annihilation.

Savannah Gilbo: 3:04

In the second installment of the Captivating Keepers of the Universe series, join Marlene on a heart-pounding journey from the depths of alien oceans to the scorching deserts of Nevada. With the fate of the Sentinels and the galaxy hanging in the balance, can Marlene unlock her true power to ensure a future worth fighting for? Okay, so that is Angela's book called Seconds to Oblivion and again, it's the second book in her Keepers of the Universe series. It's a space opera, sci-fi book, and now we're going to totally shift gears and talk about her romantic comedy. So this one is called my Plus One Equals you. And here's what the back cover says they're just trying to survive wedding season until love crashes the party.

Savannah Gilbo: 3:47

It's wedding season in Scottsdale, the perfect backdrop for love, unless you're Rachel or Cameron. For Rachel, wedding fever is difficult to escape, especially since she's a 34-year-old perpetual bridesmaid. For Cam, who invests more in his bakery than his heart, weddings are just another event to survive. Desperate to avoid the endless parade of I do's alone, rachel and Cam make a pact Be each other's plus one for the season's weddings. The rules are simple Don't overcomplicate things, be there for each other and, most importantly, don't fall in love Easy right. When their exes reappear, stirring up old emotions, their resolve is tested. Amid the swirl of confetti and wedding vows, they confront their growing feelings and lingering past. Will the irresistible pull of love force them to break the rules? Dive into a steamy, humorous and heartfelt story where love may be the wedding guest that neither Rachel nor Cameron saw coming? Now we will, of course, link to both books in the show notes, but let's go ahead and dive right into my conversation with Angela Haas. Hi, angela, welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy podcast.

Angela Haas: 4:56

Hi, thank you so much for having me. My name is Angela Haas and I actually started listening to Fiction Writing Made Easy a long time ago. It was one of the very first podcasts I ever listened to when I was just starting out, and I loved it because it was so helpful for me. So it really started to guide me. But previously I'm actually a small business owner. My husband and I own eight retail brick and mortars and that's. I've been doing that for 30 years and in the business a while ago I was an art buyer, book buyer and just merchandiser. So have that experience and then less that, just because it's hard to work with your husband. So I went on to get my master's in communication and started teaching college classes just college, public speaking, mass media and business classes. And then during COVID, thought, hey, I've always been a writer, I've always loved writing since I was a kid. Maybe I'll pull out this thing I started in high school and dust it off and see what I can do with it.

Savannah Gilbo: 6:09

And now here we are One of the cool things that came from COVID, right is? You became a published author. Yes, talk about really cool full circle moments. You were a listener of the podcast we're going to talk about. You came into the Notes to novel course and then look at all the things you've done since, which is so cool. So I want to rewind you like all the way back to, if you can remember, in COVID times, when you pulled out that book from high school and you're like, maybe I'm going to give it another shot. What happened? I'm sure you were like most of us. You went to the internet and you were Googling how to do the various things.

Angela Haas: 6:51

But did you make progress with that Like just talk me through, kind of that first attempt? Well, it actually was. I almost quit right before I started because we're so connected. We're so much more connected now because there's writer groups with Slack and Discord and we have circles now.

Angela Haas: 7:01

Before that I didn't really have anyone, I was only reading Writer's Digest, I didn't know anything else, and they had a contest in there where if you paid for this course, you could pitch your outline for your book to an agent and they'd give you feedback and maybe take you on. So I'm thinking, okay, I've always loved my story, it's just about superheroes in space. I've always loved my story. It's just about superheroes in space. So I went to the course, pitched the outline and she ripped it to shreds and it was hard because it wasn't like a cold call to someone. I was following the course instructions and I was thinking you'd get some feedback and she was like this sounds spoofy, it's not good.

Angela Haas: 7:42

And so I went to Facebook crying in this one writer's group I was in like is this normal, does this happen? And this lady saw my post and said no, join my group, find Savannah Gilbo's podcast, find these other podcasts and keep going. And so from that I was like you know what I'm determined but I'm going to take that feedback, even though it hurts so bad, and I'm going to start writing this over from scratch and reading and learning, taking notes to novel course and starting to learn how to actually put a novel together. And so out of that rising from those ashes of just feeling her, it just turned out really well.

Savannah Gilbo: 8:26

Yeah, and it's such a hard experience to go through something like that. I know a lot of writers who have similar stories and it's unfortunate because I think, after kind of seeing all these different writers go through it, that person probably meant well, I would hope, but the way that they're delivering what they're trying to say isn't always the best or the most constructive, and I kind of wish that we all knew how to give feedback in a positive, constructive way and things like that, just so we would never have to hear stories like this, because it kills me, it makes me, so upset to hear you be like, I almost quit.

Savannah Gilbo: 8:59

And now look at you. You're like publishing your third book, yeah. I'm so glad for that woman in the Facebook group that was like no, no, this is not good, this is not normal, and also for you, you know, having the tenacity to get back into it.

Angela Haas: 9:14

Yeah, and I think it was hard because it was my first real attempt to put myself out there. I think that's as authors we're always like do I really want people to read this? It's so intimate for you, it's like been in your head and now you put it out for people to judge. But it put me through that right away, and so it was easier for me to accept other feedback or criticism, because it's going to happen.

Savannah Gilbo: 9:39

It's going to happen, and it's hard because you never know what people are bringing to your feedback. So sometimes that's the hard part about writers groups or critique groups is maybe someone just had an experience like that and so they're going to pick on you because they don't know how else to do things Exactly. So it's so hard. Getting feedback is so hard, which is why I always recommend to people like, if you can afford, to hire someone to help you with it, or to you know a developmental editor, even paid beta readers like the spun yarn, whoever that they're trained to give you feedback in that constructive way. It's just so much better. But I know not everyone can do that. So you have to be conscious of who you're asking into your world to read your story and to give you their thoughts.

Angela Haas: 10:22

Yeah, exactly, and you still have to be open to feedback too. I mean, sometimes it does hurt, but sometimes it can open you up to being like you know what? I can make this so much better. Thank you, Even the bad stuff. And you have to kind of know our reviews that were hard, but, yes, I took it and it made me better.

Savannah Gilbo: 10:43

So yeah, and those are hard too. Right, it's like you wish you could know. A does this person read sci-fi? B do they like humor in their sci-fi? Right, Like you wish you could get context. But unfortunately all we get is that text and we all get the one, two star, three star reviews and they all hurt. It is just a part of it. But for personally and for the writers I work with, I'm like every time you read one of those, go read like three of your good reviews, because, yes, you need to feel those just as much and they're there too. We just sometimes discount them a little.

Angela Haas: 11:16

Yeah, exactly, we focus on the bad ones, and yeah that I've had a lot of good reviews too yeah, but okay.

Savannah Gilbo: 11:23

So you're a little phoenix rising out of the ashes of that feedback, and so you found this woman and she said hey, that's not normal. You started listening to the podcast and then what made you sign up for the Notes to Novel course?

Angela Haas: 11:36

Well, I actually went through StoryGrid and then saw that you're a StoryGrid editor. There's so much that comes at you when you're a story grid editor. There's so much that comes at you when you're trying to decide what to sign up for. The reason I took the plunge with the Notes to Novel course is because of your podcast, because the way that you present information is so clear and concise and it's so organized that it's easy for me to listen. Learn. Just your style for me is just so much easier because sometimes and there's no criticism Everyone's style works for everyone. But for me, I need just like bullet points Right, and I wanted to do better. I wanted the framework. I wanted to learn how to write a better book, to organize it and to get it together instead of just at first I just had fiends floating around, I didn't really know what I was doing, and so, taking that course, I was able to go step by step and start from the beginning instead of just floundering.

Savannah Gilbo: 12:41

Yeah, which is great.

Angela Haas: 12:42

Yeah.

Savannah Gilbo: 12:43

Because you wanted to write more than one book too. I know the sci-fi book was. You always talked about it becoming a series, and then also I knew you had other ideas beyond just that series. So that process is really important. Again, wherever you get your process from, whoever's listening, whatever process you like, whatever makes sense, having that process to come to every time you have an idea is huge, yes, and so I love that that helped. And was there anything I always like to ask people? Was there anything you were worried about before you signed up? Because, like you said, there's so many things out there. So if it were me, I might be like gosh, there's so many things. What if this is just another thing that doesn't work? Or you know, was there anything like that?

Angela Haas: 13:28

doesn't work, or you know, was there anything like that? I know because I had listened to so many of your podcasts so I knew it was going to be good. I just I didn't have a concern, that's good. There's some things where, but I I I knew your style. Even your website is clear. It just I knew it was going to be good from signing up, so yeah no problems, that's good and I'm glad it paid off.

Savannah Gilbo: 13:48

So when you were in the course, if you were to think back and I was to say what is the one thing that made the biggest difference, is there anything that stands out when I ask that question?

Angela Haas: 14:09

don't tell part and for me, the ways that you taught how to do that. I was looking it up and it just wasn't clicking for me. But it was something that I was struggling with because I had so much passive voice and then I think, being a teacher, I felt like I over had to explain everything, like telling you know, like I'm writing a syllabus, or instructing here's how a fight scene works, punch A, punch B. But when I was listening to Show Don't Tell, just the way that you presented it, it made so much more of an impact. I remember that I need to.

Angela Haas: 14:43

I don't know if I can get into the specifics, because I took it like a few years ago but I will remember that because it clicked and now I get it, Whereas I just wasn't getting it before. But that section specifically, it all was great, but that section was really helpful because I felt like there was stuff in there that you don't see everywhere else.

Savannah Gilbo: 15:04

Yeah, and for listeners who don't have that behind the scenes, look at that lesson. In the course we talk about different levels of show and tell. So, yes, we show and tell on the sentence level and that's the common advice of the moonlight glinted on the knife or whatever. But it's also about showing how your character reacts to things, how they're processing the external events around them and things like that. But it tends to be a favorite lesson, so I'm glad it impacted you. And then I'm super curious now because you said your first outline that you submitted to that contest slash for feedback didn't work and you got some negative feedback. You also did an outline in Notes to Novel. Do you remember if there was? I know it was so long ago, but do you remember if there was anything significant about how you did the two outlines?

Angela Haas: 15:50

You know, the notes to novel outline was obviously so much better because I'm such a pantser and so I'm like starting at the end, writing a random scene there, working backward, filling in something with the middle and then trying to connect them, which there's a lot of people do that and they're really successful. There's a lot of people do that and they're really successful. I started to learn that that was making my job harder, because then I ended up like working so hard on this final scene, ending up cutting it because it started over. So with the notes to novel outline book that truly was I started from point A and went to B and actually did an outline and I got learning from you. It wasn't as attached to like just do kind of a brief framework. I didn't have to like have that whole scene nailed down and just the flow and that outline. That book started to come together much easier than the first one before I took the course.

Savannah Gilbo: 16:50

Yeah, and I think what you said is really important, because a lot of pantsers will hear the word outline and they're just kind of like, don't talk to me about that. Outlines can be anything you want. It's the goal is to help you, the writer, see the big sweep of your story, and you can take that as high level or as granular as you want. So it's just like Angela said, the goal is to not waste your time later or to not throw away things later when you can kind of work out some of that stuff in the outline. So I'm glad that that worked as well.

Savannah Gilbo: 17:19

So, okay, now here's where I kind of left you and I didn't know what happened to you for a while. I, you know, I saw you, I got your email, saw you around the internet and things like that, but I didn't know what you were doing from leaving notes to novel to one day I got an email in my inbox that said a writer you follow published a new book and I was like, oh my gosh, she published this book. So what did you do between leaving notes to novel and publishing your book, which? This is the book two of your Keepers in the Universe series called Seconds to Bliss.

Angela Haas: 17:48

So tell me about that time in between I was like raring to go and I really finished like that first draft came together really quickly. But then I struggled finding an editor. The person that I worked before was Asa Radar. I found a new editor that was rewriting things without track changes on and which is a dangerous place to be, because I really lost my voice in the book. And I remember I submitted another scene for a coaching session with you where we did an online coaching session and that was really helpful and it ended up completely rewriting it based on the feedback I got in that coaching scene.

Angela Haas: 18:32

But what I learned to do was even I only did one coaching scene with you and I took that advice and I was able to apply it to the whole novel. So even though again I had to face adversity and start over and rewrite the whole thing the way I wanted, I still had those lessons in the back of my mind. So the second rewrite came together faster, found another great editor. It all just kind of came together at a successful book launch sold 40 books at my book launch, yeah. So it was kind of up in air. There was a few times I wanted to just quit, like you, just get to this point, like it's not.

Angela Haas: 19:11

I can't do this you know this is so hard and they just keep going because now, seeing that it's done, that is so worth it. Everything I went through, it's so worth it.

Savannah Gilbo: 19:22

Well, and it's so hard again too, because, like, not only is, let's say, everything goes right, it's still a marathon, right, like it's still hard and tiring and it's you get all these emotions when you're writing the book, editing the book and publishing the book and all that, but also you did have some pretty severe hiccups, like you said, with even at the starting gate, where you're like I don't know if I want to continue and I want to go back to what you said, because I'm sure listeners their ears were like pinged, like oh my God, someone was rewriting your draft. Angela told me the other day, when we were chatting, that an editor, like she said, was basically rewriting pieces of her story without track changes on, so she couldn't find where her story was and where their writing was, which became a big nightmare. And you were like again, is it worth going on? This is so hard. So you had some pretty severe road bumps or roadblocks to go up across and you still pushed through it because I think it meant so much to you.

Angela Haas: 20:18

To finish, yes, and I worked so hard on it. I really believed in the story. I really wanted people to meet the new keeper because my series is more like Avengers, where there's each one is like an origin story in a connected universe. And she was so different than the first Keeper that I was like I've got to get her out there and I just I loved the book and I just invested so much. You don't want to give up. If you can keep going, the way out is through.

Savannah Gilbo: 20:47

That's for sure. And it's so funny because every time you bring up the like the getting the scene feedback on that one scene, I still a hundred percent remember that whole scene because I love your story. It's a quirky space opera. It showcases women that are strong and, like you said, there's a new keeper every book and who doesn't love like a fun little trip to Vegas in a space opera? So it was just so fun. But okay, so that that's amazing. We're going to link to that book Again. That is Seconds to Oblivion, it's book two in your Keepers of the Universe series and that's your sci fi series. Now let's shift gears and I want to hear about what made you start trying to write a romance, or writing a romance, because at the time we're recording it's actually out available for pre-order. Yes, what was that shift like? Because a lot of writers will ask me like is it weird to write in multiple genres? Is it way harder, is it?

Angela Haas: 21:42

they're just it's enough writing one book, right, and then you're going to switch genres. What's that like? Yeah, and I actually I was doing that at the same time, so I was waiting for edits to come back. I've got this story in my brain that just popped up and I'm just going to put it down. And I just started writing it. It just started coming to me and it was so weird because I always have romantic subplots and I'd been doing a lot of research.

Angela Haas: 22:08

Romance is obviously the number one selling genre and I was like, oh I can, I love romance. I've been doing romance and watching romance and devouring romance my whole life. No, it's so different, especially coming from like a sci-fi, fantasy world where you're making up magic systems, superhero systems. In sci-fi. You have to get all this theoretical, non-existent weapons and world stuff down. If you don't, even though it's fake and imaginary, it doesn't work. So the slog of really world building is intense.

Angela Haas: 22:49

I thought it was going to be easier to write the romance. However, you have to follow the rules still. There's still so much to learn about tropes and emotional wounds. And are you doing romantic comedy and what does that look like? The hardest thing was like nailing like where, what's my lane as far as like intimate scenes? Where am I going with that? I decided, since my mother's reading it, I'm going to be lower spice but not closed door. So I mean you have to do a lot of research. I started just reading romance novels and then learning from them and then just writing these two people and realizing you know what. I was a bridesmaid five times in the year 2000. Once a weekend I had a major wedding. One was in a barn, one was Greek Orthodox, one was a giant $200,000 blowout in Denver, colorado. I have all these wedding stories so I drew upon those and I just started writing this romance. And now it's there.

Angela Haas: 23:52

That's amazing this romance and now it's there. That's amazing. Yeah, it was the only last thing I'll say. It was easier from a standpoint like I was writing from a world that exists. It's based in Scottsdale. I lived part-time in Scottsdale, I know what the restaurants are, what the weather's like, and that was so much easier than coming up with the sci-fi fantasy world. Right. But, that was fun yeah.

Savannah Gilbo: 24:14

Yeah, that's so cool and I love like you hit on. What I love about genre fiction is that, yes, it's all fiction, but each genre is its own little world and its own little bubble and there's rules and there's really good things that we all love about books of that genre, and then there's things that make it challenging. And you tell me if this is correct. But I would imagine that both of your genres are going to be stronger, having written in two genres now, because it's like you just learned more tools for your toolbox.

Angela Haas: 24:43

Yes, yes, and there's things I can apply to both, because ultimately, it comes down to how strong your characters are. For me, I feel like that's what readers love, because I learned a lot actually just going on and reading one-star reviews from trad pub authors to indie authors Not that all of them, some of them are just people who are cranky, but some are like. You can learn a lot by what readers don't like, and that taught me a lot about what to maybe avoid in the romance genre, and so, yeah, each one is its very own, but I can apply things to both now, yeah, and do you have an example off the top of your head of like what you might have learned from a one-star review?

Angela Haas: 25:26

A lot of people don't. In romance, specifically the third act breakup. I'm learning that that's becoming a problem, or anything that can be really solved by simple communication, like a misunderstanding that gets blown out of proportion leads to a breakup when all the other person had to do was maybe pick up the phone and just talk about it. Readers don't like that and they don't like whiny love interests on either side.

Savannah Gilbo: 25:59

It's so funny because the way you know, I look at things like that and I'm like what would I imagine is the root of why they don't like it? And it's probably because it's just not done well. So like a third act breakup when it works, and it's really gut-wrenching and you're just like, oh my God, how are they going to fix this? That's like you're a master of your craft. When you can do something like that, like hit that key scene, you can also, of course, like, do something totally different. So maybe they don't break up, maybe they separate for whatever reason, physically or emotionally, or there's so many ways you can play with it. And I think that's what's really cool is you're doing the work to understand, like, what do people not like? What do they like? And then how do I make it me? Yeah, I think that's so fascinating.

Angela Haas: 26:40

Yeah, and I'm older than you. I was writing I'm almost 50. So I'm a little more than Nicole as far as love goes sometimes, although I'm married to a wonderful husband. But I was so thinking back on my younger 20-something single dating life, I'm like ugh. No, I'm not putting this in there, it's a different mindset it is. It's totally different. I was applying at first too much logic to the romance and that's one thing. I did have to learn that there is a fantasy piece Like it's not that. I'm like well, if they just talk this over, it's fine. So I guess that's not an issue. But I had to be like don't be so logical. There is fantasy and romance.

Savannah Gilbo: 27:27

Yeah, and different worldviews and different ways of interpreting things, and I think that's one of the key things that I see a lot of drafts that don't work, and it's like you have to build in the internal logic for who these people are in order for the overall logic to make sense. With that mix of fantasy and that hope that we're going to get the HEA and all that stuff.

Savannah Gilbo: 27:48

So it's like if you do the work, like you said, the character work, if you understand, like why certain conventions and key scenes or tropes could play into this and you understand that deeper, why. I think it's like you just have so many things to work with and so much to play with, so much you can make unique to your story. But yeah, it's pretty fun.

Angela Haas: 28:09

Yes, yeah, it was really fun, and I actually have three more romances outlined because I'm going to make them duologies. That's another one that a lot of people are doing like taking one character from and carrying that person over to being a love interest, where they were kind of a side character. So that's the new challenge and I've heard that readers really are liking duology. So it's not like investing in an entire series but just having those two where you get a little bit more of that world but you're not like okay, there's six books in this.

Savannah Gilbo: 28:43

Well, it's so fun too, because usually in the second book the couple from the first book will make a little cameo and you get those feelings of like everything's good for them, so yeah, that's so cool. And so this book is called my Plus One Equals you, and we will link to that in the show notes as well. So I wanna also ask you why you decided to self-publish, because you have self-published the Keepers of the Universe series and my Plus One Equals you.

Angela Haas: 29:10

Yes, and I was on the fence about my Plus One Equals you because a few people reading it said you should try to pitch this because it's good and I'm saying that's they read the better draft. So I think they didn't read the awful first draft. But I just decided there's pros and cons with each and I think tread publishing if you can get a deal it's fantastic and there's rewards. But the more research I did for me I think the road to tread publishing is the long game. It doesn't happen instantly. Even if you get an agent and then your book goes back to editing, maybe back to cover design, it takes a little bit of the control out from you and there's just no guarantees.

Angela Haas: 29:56

Where, for me, I was so excited about my romance and my keepers books that I just wanted to do it my way and get it out there. It is more tiring doing marketing and things like that, but I wanted to. It is back to trusting myself in that. I feel strongly about the covers. I had really good people working on them, book brush and yummy covers. They're great to work with and I wanted to do it my way and get it out there. So I'm not waiting for possibly years getting you get rejected. Maybe you get something, maybe you don't, and then that's time ticking where my story could be out there, right? So that was the biggest part of that decision.

Savannah Gilbo: 30:36

Yeah, I love that and you're right, because not only does it take a long time, but then it's like I've seen some people get close to the finish line and something bad happens and it all falls apart. So you just really never know and it takes so long. But now, being on the opposite, like the other side of the fence, do you have any regrets about choosing that route?

Angela Haas: 30:55

No, I think the only regret I have is I'd like to try pitching once. I just like to try it. I want to have that experience. I want to know what it's like to actually try to find an agent query pitch. That's another skill and so I may do it down the road, just because, at the point to have a romance that I could do it with, I have nothing to lose If it doesn't happen, I can self-publish. But I think maybe just not getting that chance to try it and see, and yeah, I don't know.

Savannah Gilbo: 31:29

Plus, you're such a learner like you probably just want the experience too. You know, I do.

Angela Haas: 31:33

I like to have all experience. I'm a sponge, I just want to absorb everything.

Savannah Gilbo: 31:38

So, yeah, maybe someday the good news that I know about you is you're doing a lot to build your audience already. So you, not only do you have free books out, but you're starting a podcast and you're doing you're, you're doing a lot to build your audience already. So not only do you have free books out, but you're starting a podcast and you're doing you're, you're coming on podcasts. You're doing a lot of things to build your readership and that's going to be appealing for the day when you ever happen to query agents. So all good things, but you'll have to keep me posted. If you have any big learnings that way, or if any success is that way, we'll have to have you back and hear about some of that I definitely will, definitely.

Savannah Gilbo: 32:11

So, Angela, I'm going to take you back to that day that you pulled out the manuscript and you were like this is something I want to do. If you could tell yourself anything back then, what would you say? I?

Angela Haas: 32:22

would say trust yourself. And I had to really go through this because I went through with I had compare itis. I had my book is never going to be good enough itis. And I gave away a lot of like my power and my storytelling because I was feeling so insecure that I wasn't good enough. You are good enough and people are waiting for your story.

Angela Haas: 32:48

And I needed to, like trust myself more so that I wouldn't have gone down all these routes like saying, oh, I need this help and I need to sign up for this and I need to follow this person's advice and I think I should do this, but this person's telling me different. I guess they're the expert. I'll go with them and a lot of times that works. Trusting you, that worked beautifully. But when you do it too much and not say you know what, I really feel strongly that this should be in my story. Yeah, and trust yourself. That's where you can avoid a lot of heartache because you're not going to give your voice away so much. You need to be open to feedback. You need to be willing to kill your darlings, even though you're in love with them, if three alpha readers are saying this doesn't work, you got to let it go, but trust yourself more than you think you do, and that's what I would have told my previous self.

Savannah Gilbo: 33:45

Yeah, I love that and it makes so much sense based on everything you've been through and something that I do in. I have a business world where I'm running my business, and then I have my writing world where I have mentors on each side, you know, and there's people I love for things on each side and what I do, because I can really fall into overwhelm quick and I can get, like you said, all the voices in my head of I should do this, but I feel like I should do that and there's so many opinions on things right, and what I've seen on both sides of the fence is that everyone's advice is basically trying to get you to the same point. So, instead of if we take plotting methods, for example, it's the perfect example. There's save the cat. There's snowflake method, there's story grid there's the perfect example. There's save the cat, there's snowflake method, there's story grid, there's three act structure, there's all these different things and hero's journey.

Savannah Gilbo: 34:34

We're never going to have our story like check off each box perfectly, because it's each person's interpretation of like this is how you write a story. However, they're all trying to get you to the same spot, so it's like whatever one resonates with you go with that. I always say I'm limited to three mentors, that I'm gonna really stick to their advice. One of those mentors is me, so like I get a seat at the table too, so me. And then I'm gonna pick two other people. That's like all right if I lost everyone else. These are the people that make sense, and so for anyone, I feel like someone out there listening needed to hear something like that. So you're hearing it from me and Angela like blinders and also, trust your gut.

Angela Haas: 35:08

Yes, trust your gut Absolutely.

Savannah Gilbo: 35:15

I love that so much. Okay, well, angela, is there anything else you would love to impart on listeners?

Angela Haas: 35:19

before I let you go. No, maybe just you can't see too far down the road right and doing being a self-published author. It's full of potholes. That road is full of potholes. But I never thought I'd be sitting here on Savannah Gilbo's podcast. I mean, you're my idol, honestly, and I was a listener, listening in my car, with nothing, and now I have three books out Due to your guidance, like I seriously acknowledge you in every novel, because it meant so much to me to have you as that guide and to be in your class, to be on that coaching session. You just never know where those connections are going to take you. So it'll happen. Just be patient and you'll get there.

Savannah Gilbo: 36:03

Yeah, listeners won't be able to see me, but I've got some tears in my eyes because that means so much to me.

Angela Haas: 36:07

Thank you for that.

Savannah Gilbo: 36:08

Angela, we're going to link to all your where we can find you on the internet your books and all that good stuff in the show notes. But thank you so much for coming on the show and for sharing everything with listeners. I know they're going to love this episode. Thank you so much.

Angela Haas: 36:22

Thanks for having me.

Savannah Gilbo: 36:30

So that's it for today's episode. As always, thank you so much for tuning in and for showing your support. If you want to check out any of the links I mentioned in this episode, you can find them in the show notes listed in the description of each episode inside your podcast player or at savannahgilbocom forward slash podcast. If you're an Apple user, I'd really appreciate it if you took a few seconds to leave a rating and a review. Your ratings and I'll see episode next week full of actionable tips, tools and strategies to help you become a better writer. So I'll see you next week and until then, happy writing.