Speaker 1: 0:00

Your writing journey is a marathon. It's not a sprint. Life happens. You got to balance it and do your best with it, trying to develop a thick skin for self-publishing. I think developing a thick skin comes when you actually publish your book and market it and you're so vulnerable in those moments of putting something you've worked your heart and soul for out into the world and people can tear it to shreds. So it's important to develop a thick skin.

Speaker 2: 0:31

Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy podcast. My name is Savannah Gilbo and I'm here to help you write a story that works. I want to prove to you that writing a novel doesn't have to be overwhelming, so each week, I'll bring you a brand new episode with simple, actionable and step-by-step strategies that you can implement in your writing right away. So, whether you're brand new to writing or more of a seasoned author looking to improve your craft, this podcast is for you. So pick up a pen and let's get started. In today's episode, we're going to go behind the scenes of one writer's journey to hear how she wrote, edited and published her debut novel, air and Ashes. My guest's name is Margaret Mantor, and she's the author of Air and Ashes, which she describes as a young adult science fantasy romance, and in this episode we're going to talk about things like what it was like to write the first draft of her debut novel, a novel she'd been dreaming about since high school, no less. How she handled getting feedback from both a developmental editor and beta readers, including when she reached out to each, and how she approached incorporating their feedback into her revisions. And then you'll hear all about Margaret's marketing strategies that made her book an Amazon bestseller upon its release, marketing strategies that made her book an Amazon bestseller upon its release and, spoiler alert, it was not social media that did the trick for Margaret, so if you are a little social media adverse, you will not want to miss this part. I personally found this part of our discussion super fascinating, and the strategies Margaret employed during her book release and even after its release are something that every author can implement. So there is a lot to learn there. So Margaret's going to share how she found success through book promotion sites, newsletter features and being a guest on various podcasts. Plus, you'll hear her talk about why she's focused on getting her book in the hands of as many readers as possible, even if that means giving away a bunch of free copies to build her readership. So this is a jam-packed episode, and before we get into the conversation, I want to read the back cover copy of Margaret's book, just so that you have some context. So here's what it says After 17-year-old Emma Cross learns her mom didn't die of cancer but was murdered, her life is upended.

Speaker 2: 2:44

Forced from her home, emma is thrown into a world hidden within our own, where Elementum's genetically engineered super soldiers who control the elements are caught in a vicious war against the unstoppable clinic. Emma is convinced she doesn't belong there until she herself is targeted as a rare half-breed. If she wants to survive and uncover the dark secrets of her mom's past, she must train to defend herself against the clinic while resisting the distracting allure of the icy Caden Hale, a powerful, driven Elementum with secrets of his own. When Emma discovers a highly classified project that somehow involved her mom and could change the entire course of the war, there's no turning back. Only three options remain life in the elementum world, death or, worst of all, capture. And with that being said, let's dive into my conversation with Margaret Mantor. Hi, margaret, thank you so much for coming on the Fiction Writing Made Easy podcast.

Speaker 1: 3:43

I'm so excited to talk to you today. How are you? Thanks, savannah, I'm very honored to be here and doing great.

Speaker 2: 3:48

So before we get into everything, Margaret, can you introduce yourself to my listeners in your own words, just who you are, where you live, what kind of stories you write and things like that.

Speaker 1: 3:57

Absolutely so. My name is Margaret Mantour. I'm a science fantasy romance author, so if you don't know what science fantasy is, it's the combination of science fiction and fantasy. It's where they meet the love of it all and I am a author, architect and an avid reader and I live in Denver, Colorado, with my husband and my corgi, Carl. He's my little burnt toast love and he's my writing buddy and he knows all my thought stories and plot twists and everything.

Speaker 2: 4:37

So yeah, I love that and congratulations on your recent book launch so recent. At the time of this recording, your book came out on October 8th, 2024, right, yes and yeah. And I read a summary of your book in the intro. It sounds amazing. I've had the pleasure of reading an early draft so I can definitely say it's a great book. But how are you feeling? It's now like a month after your published date.

Speaker 1: 5:04

How are you feeling? Yeah, it's been a roller coaster in ways, but truly it's been an experience that I couldn't have loved more honestly. It hit number one new release on Amazon in one of its categories I've gotten the word out there and people have reviewed it and seem to love it, and so it's all the support that comes in that has just made it all worth it.

Speaker 2: 5:31

Yeah, all those hard years and months of like really digging in, doing the work and now it's like, yeah, it's finally out there. Yes, so we're going to talk about. I want to definitely come back to like how you made it an Amazon bestseller and what went into that, but I kind of want to take you all the way back to the very starting line. So can you talk about where this idea came from and how you knew you wanted to turn this idea into a novel and things like that?

Speaker 1: 5:57

Absolutely so. Actually, this story came to me back in high school and I was always told you know, writing is a difficult career. You won't ever make it Like, don't do it. So I ended up going a whole different career path and then later in life I ended up having an opportunity to actually explore going about a writing career and pick the story back up in my head. And now we're here.

Speaker 2: 6:28

That's so fun. So, all the way back from, like, high school days to fast forward, you went in the real world, which I think so much of us do. I hate calling it the real world, because I think writing can be our real world too. But you did the thing most of us do we get the job. We kind of put down writing for a while and come back to it. And we actually met when you had a draft. So I'm going to kind of like jump ahead to you.

Speaker 2: 6:52

You wrote the draft, you had the idea, you wrote the draft and then, in 2023 is when you reached out to me for a developmental edit. So I don't know if you can remember like where your head was at that time, because it's now two years ago right, more than two years ago but when you had written that draft and you're kind of like okay, now I'm finally ready to like take this dream seriously, I'm ready to get it out in the world. What made you know or what made you realize this is the time to get feedback? And then, how did you kind of go about that?

Speaker 1: 7:21

Yeah, absolutely so. Before I even wrote my first draft, I did a number of months of researching the process of how to write a book, how to go about it, and during that research it was highly recommended to hire a developmental editor, which I fully agreed with. If you're going to build something, a solid foundation is critical to that and I considered the developmental letter process as that critical foundation. Moving forward, Picking the point, when I did send it to you, I decided after edited version of my first draft. I knew I was at a point where I had explored the story enough, but I knew I needed feedback to make sure I was going in the right direction or things I needed to cut in that process. So it was yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:16

And that's kind of how I think it happens for a lot of people is they go out and they're reading the articles, they're getting the books and they're listening to podcasts and doing all the things. So they know this is what I'm aiming for. And then they write a draft and they're like my draft doesn't quite match what I know it should. I just don't know how to get it there. And that's, like you said, exactly what a developmental editor will do.

Speaker 2: 8:36

So I'm so glad you reached out and then I went back and looked at kind of your draft and just some of the notes I left you and things like that, because we're going to go down memory lane for a second. But if I had to summarize because I know that listeners find this really interesting like well, we'll talk about this. So, like A, what was it? Like B, what did you do with the feedback and things like that? So first, I guess let me ask you as a person in general, how are you with receiving feedback? Like, was it scary to think about getting it? Were you looking forward to it? Tell me about that.

Speaker 1: 9:08

A mix of emotions. So so yes and no on all that. Personally, I think receiving especially professional feedback is absolutely important. I highly recommend it to anybody going through the process. I highly recommend it to anybody going through the process. However, receiving the feedback for something that you've poured your heart and soul into and spent, you know, months over, and everything it's so hard. It's rough. I will not lie. I would highly recommend trying to distance yourself as much as you can before you receive that feedback so that way you can take it positively, because any editor that you hire is only trying to improve your story, how you tell it, and so that you can get the best version of it out there into the world.

Speaker 2: 10:01

Yeah, and I think it's so interesting because sometimes writers think like if I just become a better writer, then getting feedback will be easy, and most of the time I'm like I don't think it ever gets easy. I think you just kind of shift your mindset around it, because even, like for me, when I get feedback on my work, because people always ask me like, well, you're an editor, do you need an editor? And I'm like, yeah, I do. And every you know, every time I get feedback, there's still that like, oh, I wish I had nailed it, you know, I wish I had done better. So I think it's very normal to feel that way and I love to hear you talk about it, just to normalize that a little bit more. So for any listeners that are like, yeah, I don't love it, but I know it's necessary, that's pretty normal.

Speaker 1: 10:40

Oh yeah, no.

Speaker 2: 10:41

Yeah, yeah, so, okay. So I kind of took some key points of like things I told you in the editorial letter and if I were to summarize it's, I think the biggest thing that your draft needed was some work on the antagonist. Do you remember that from that experience?

Speaker 1: 11:02

Yes, and hopefully in the final inspiration it came out better. However, I think I struggled the most because I had planned this as a three book series and I didn't want to give too much away, I guess, and so hearing that feedback was very important to be able to say no, no, no. It's needed for the reader to understand the world and go from there.

Speaker 2: 11:25

I'm sure I'm sure I haven't finished reading the new version but I already was hoping. Through it I'm like, ooh, this is so good, so I feel confident. But a couple of the specific things was like we need to sharpen, like what does this antagonist actually want? Why do they want it? I just needed to understand that more and there are so many benefits to doing that.

Speaker 2: 11:43

Because if we look at kind of the other feedback I gave, it was like your main character is great, but she could use a little more agency here and there and all of that really ties back to just how she understands the stakes and like what the antagonist is trying to do.

Speaker 2: 11:56

So you know and it's interesting that you reminded me you're writing a series because this happens often we try to spread things out and sometimes it's like, yes, we want to spread things out, obviously because the antagonist is the overarching series antagonist, but we still need them to have a clear goal, clear motivation, clear plan in book one, book two and book three. So I can't wait to see how you handle that. But I'd say that's the biggest thing. That my notes said is just clarify that and it should kind of shake out all the other things. So why I bring this up is it's pretty cool that, given all the things that could have gone wrong with your draft, that was really one of the like the biggest thing you needed to fix and you did so much well, so that's very cool.

Speaker 1: 12:42

Yeah, it was inspiring when I got your editorial letter, that all the positives about it, because I was terrified that like it was going to be, like what are you doing? Why you should quit now?

Speaker 2: 12:55

No, I know that's what everyone thinks, yeah, they think they're going to get this letter. That's like you should just give up on writing and it's like, no, yes, there are going to be things to improve, but there are also a lot of things you do well. So, and that's what's great about editing right Is you fix the things that need improvement and then you just get better at the things that are already working. So all of that's great and I, like I said, I can't wait to see where the draft landed. I got my copy at the time recording this. We just got home from vacation, so it was waiting for me when I got home and I'm going to dig in soon, okay.

Speaker 2: 13:27

So, after you got the feedback, I know like we had a phone call, we brainstormed some things and then, like I don't know what happened after that. So I would love for you to tell us, like, what did you do? How did you kind of tackle your edits? How many drafts, if you remember, did that take? And then, did you work with other editors or beta readers? Like what was that whole thing like?

Speaker 1: 13:47

Yeah, so I did have to take a little bit of time off for personal issues, unfortunately, but you know life happens during that process. But overall, after taking the feedback you gave me, I organized it into kind of a tracking list and really went back and flushed out the plot points that in the agency and everything that you pointed out and came up with a different process of how I plotted the book and actually has been a lifesaver for book two and I believe book two will be even better, I'm like getting about it hopefully. But it really did help that kind of planning it out. And so then, after figuring out and plotting out all those revisions that I did want to do, went back in and revised the actual draft. Once I finished revising it, I did a self-edit again and then sent it to a line editor.

Speaker 1: 14:58

Oh, sorry, I did forget I did beta readers. Wow, I did my beta reading and my developmental editing concurrently together, so taking their feedback as well within the developmental revisions. So that was one process. And then, after that was done, I sent it to a line editor, then got their feedback back and kind of did this similar process of creating a revision tracker and the notes I wanted and then implementing them into the next draft. Then after that it went to a proofreader. So all in all I did three editors, a round of beta readers, and that was the process for me that's awesome.

Speaker 2: 15:45

And so a couple things I want to highlight is you said like, yeah, getting the feedback is not always super fun and of course, there's things you're going to need to work on. But what you said about how draft two or book two is already like such an improvement because you got some feedback, because you developed a new process, so it's like, yeah, it kind of feels scary sometimes, but the benefits are so worth it to go through that and hone your process to avoid some of the things that maybe you needed to do differently in book one, so that's really cool. And then you said you did beta reading at the same time as developmental editing. I think that is really smart as well, and that's not going to be the process for every writer, because some writers will need a developmental edit, a developmental edit first, or they'll decide to do beta reading first, depending on their goals. When you got the feedback from the developmental edit and the beta reader, were there a lot of overlapping things To be honest.

Speaker 1: 16:38

Well, yes, yes and no, but more of. I fully knew that the feedback I was going to receive from you was going to be more in-depth and, I guess, more critical to the story overarching, versus from the beta readers. I knew it was going to be more of. Did you actually? Did things string along correctly? Were you confused at points? It was more of a higher level feedback from them than I was expecting, and that was true. There were a few comments that I got that actually like I was surprised by, or like I was like oh, that's a great point, like, like, so it was well worth it. But I would definitely to anybody who's looking to do beta readers.

Speaker 2: 17:26

It's just a different form of feedback you'll receive, depending on how you go about it Right, and I love that point because a lot of people that don't know how the process works are kind of like, oh, I just need one or I need the other, and I always recommend both, because the developmental editor or a book coach whoever you're working with they can help you say okay in this case, margaret, I understand your vision for the story. Now how do I help you take that draft and make it match your vision, where the beta readers are saying sometimes they can do this too, but most times they're like this is the story you're presenting me. I'm going to share my reactions and opinions as a reader would, so it's totally two different lenses most of the time, which is really cool and really valuable as a writer.

Speaker 2: 18:12

So, I love that you did that, and so I'm sure, at the same time, all of this was happening with your editors and proof readers and all this, you were also working on producing the book, so like finding cover designers and dealing with formatting and all of that fun stuff when, in the process, did you decide you were going to self-publish?

Speaker 1: 18:30

So actually it was shortly, shortly before I had my final call with you, with getting the feedback. When I sent it in to you I hadn't. I wasn't sure. But I did more research and kind of read blogs and again, like you know, there's tons of information out there for anybody who's wanting to get into this industry and definitely take advantage of it. And just doing the research, weighing the pros and cons, for me personally, self-publishing came out as the avenue that just seemed to best align with my expertise, my skills, what I brought to the table. So, but it's different for everybody.

Speaker 2: 19:16

It's totally different and it's you know there's pros and cons. Like you said, you're in charge of everything when you self-publish, which is great. It also means there's more work to be done, and you know things like that. So I'm going to take you back to what you said earlier, where you're like I don't regret a single minute of it, even the hiccups, and you got to Amazon number one bestseller. So, like you know, these are the things that when I hear people say I want to self-publish, it's the things that people want to achieve and it's you've done it. So that's, it's just really cool. And so I really want to know, like, when you published so you obviously picked a published date, you did all the steps to get up to that and we don't have to go through all of those. But, like, what did you do that you think had the biggest impact on getting that number one bestseller flag?

Speaker 1: 20:02

It was definitely planning out my marketing strategy, the promotions. I did as best as I could get the word out there. I do think I still have much to learn and there's building that audience and platform. I wish I had done a little bit more. You hear that from every debut author and authors out there you wish you had started sooner, that kind of stuff, and it's true. But I do think that the avenues I took did help me do that and achieve that.

Speaker 2: 20:35

Yeah, and what are like the two? If we were to think about all your marketing efforts, are there two to three things that either you love the most or that move the needle the most.

Speaker 1: 20:44

So I would say as great as social media is, and there are some statistics for TikTok of driving book sales. That's true. Actually, most of my sales did not come from social media at all, more from going to promoting sites and getting onto their newsletters, doing podcasts like this. It's those connections and opportunities led to more sales.

Speaker 2: 21:14

Right, and that's something in these student spotlight issues or episodes that we do. We keep hearing that listeners right. So it's like we can't rely on social media to sell our books. We need to do all these other things, like build our email list and use services like did you use BookBub for the promotions and NetGalley to get your stuff in front of ARC readers and did you do both of those?

Speaker 1: 21:38

things was actually when I did a new release for less feature with them, and that was actually what drove it to be a bestseller. So using sites like that and doing your research of how far in advance you need to apply for things, and all that stuff definitely made a difference for that.

Speaker 2: 22:01

And is your background in marketing?

Speaker 1: 22:03

No, so, as much as I wish it was, no, I did a lot of research and I learned a lot. So again, still learning.

Speaker 2: 22:14

I love that, because earlier you were like, you know, self-publishing was more towards my or was in line with my experience and things like that. And some listeners might be like, oh, she must've had a background in marketing, because look at all these amazing things she did. No, she didn't. So you're hearing it from Margaret no background in marketing, and look at all the cool things she did. And this is possible for any of us listening as well. So, so cool, Margaret. And you know one thing that I hear people talk about when they think about BookBub and things like that, they're like well, if I list my book for 99 cents or if I put it in this promotion, I'm probably missing out on money, Did you like? You probably seen that too on the Internet, but how did you think about it in a way that got you these results?

Speaker 1: 22:55

Absolutely so. One of the best advice that I did find in my research was and again, this is take this with a grain of salt I guess is forget about the actual revenue that you're going to get for book one. Just place it out of your mind. I know that is scary and it sucks because you're like I want to make a living doing this. But, to be honest, book one is not about that. It's about getting it out there, finding your audience, and those readers who will love your book and will be giddy for book two will absolutely buy book three and any series that you write in the future, and doing that is getting your book out there by putting it on sale, giving it away for free, and it's all about what you bring to the table for those readers, because anytime you're searching for something, it's like as a customer. What am I getting out of this? So a great deal. You're getting a book for nothing. It's a great avenue.

Speaker 2: 24:04

It's a great deal too, for you know you're a debut author, so the reader doesn't know anything about you and they can, of course, look on the internet, but they don't have any of that past experience with your books. So they're taking a chance on you and you're giving it to them for a good deal. So it's really a win-win. And I like how you think about it, because you're like look, if I make money, that's great, but I really need to find my readers.

Speaker 2: 24:26

And we can all go and look at Margaret's Amazon reviews, because I was poking around them last night and almost all of them were like I can't wait for book two. So it's like the things she's doing are working and it's helping her build that reader base which is so important to everything you're going to do in the future. So I just love, I love all that. And then you said you're also going on podcasts, which I think is great, because there's a theme in all these things you're doing it's exposure and it's trying to get your book in front of the right readers and like, yes, social media can do that, but it actually takes a lot more work to get the result.

Speaker 1: 24:59

Yeah, so I, to be honest, I could be on social media a lot more posting every day, and it's a different. It's another job. It truly is, and as a writer, I want to focus on my writing. So I do a schedule where I only post a certain amount of days. I still build my platform, but I know it's not going to be overnight and it's going to take years. And that's okay with me, because I know that I'm also building my audience in other industries and platforms and everything that actually end up bringing more to the table for me.

Speaker 2: 25:40

Yeah, and I love that's how you're thinking about it. And there's a lot of writers who they try to do things on social media, like they try to get the results that you're getting from these other avenues, and then they feel defeated because they're like social media doesn't work and it's like I mean kind of, but also are you doing all the other things that actually move the needle? And then what's your goal in the first place? Is it to make thousands of dollars on your first book, and is that realistic? So I think you're just such a good example of like you've done the research, you're prioritizing the right things and look at the results you've had so far, I mean that's great, yeah. And like you said earlier, you're like I don't regret a thing, like yes, there are hiccups maybe along the way, but you're having fun, you're enjoying it and you don't regret a thing, so I love it.

Speaker 1: 26:23

Yeah, honestly, the lessons learned stick with you more. And if the my book had gone perfectly quote unquote like I wouldn't have learned as much and I wouldn't have grown like like your protagonist, you're trying to grow and, you know, become better, and I honestly am thankful for the hiccups that I had, because I wouldn't be who I am today without them. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:49

So I love that you have such a good mindset on everything and so, speaking of, like, big lessons or kind of key takeaways they don't all have to be stumbling blocks or bad things but if you were to like think about Margaret before the adult version of you went back and tackled this book, because we know you started it when you were younger, but what like were there? Is there anything you would have said to yourself or any lessons you would have like? Would you like to impart on that previous version of Margaret if you had the chance?

Speaker 1: 27:18

Yeah, absolutely. There's definitely tons of things, but I think the more important ones are your writing journey is a marathon. It's not a sprint. You know life happens. You got to balance it and do your best with it. Another one is trying to develop a thick skin. I think for traditional publishing, you definitely do one if you're querying agents, but for self-publishing, I think developing a thick skin comes when you actually publish your book and market it. Developing a thick skin comes when you actually publish your book and market it and you're so vulnerable in those moments of putting something you've worked your heart and soul for out into the world, and people can tear it to shreds. So it's important to develop a thick skin.

Speaker 2: 28:06

And, if I can pause you there, because I want to ask you if you're having a certain experience that I've seen other writers have. I think it's exactly what you said, that traditionally, if you traditionally publish, you're going to have that experience up front when you're queering and doing that. And then if you self-publish, it's really when those reviews start coming in and there are so many reasons why people will leave weird or bad reviews. Like another writer I work with, she got a review on her book, which is a sci-fi, and it was like I didn't like this book. Everything about it was terrible. I don't really read sci-fi and it's like well then, why did you pick this book up? So sometimes it's like you have to know that you need to parse through that stuff. But also there are so many things to think about Because if you're going to work with influencers or like anyone in an ARC campaign, advanced reader copy campaign, those people tend to be a little harsher or a little like less giving of the five-star reviews, even though they might leave you a glowing review in the text, right.

Speaker 2: 29:04

And then there's like the friends and family that just leave all positives because they're friends and family. So it's like there's so many different things and for other writers that I've worked with, it seems like sometimes those things come in waves. So it's like you might get all the family and friend five stars and you feel really good for two days and then influencer reviews start coming in and you feel terrible for three days, you know, and it's like kind of a roller coaster, and you're also so tired because you just wrote, edited and published an entire book and you're focusing all these marketing efforts right. So it's kind of like, yes, thick skin, but also like consider the context and also take care of yourself, because if you're burnt out, everything's going to feel 40 times worse.

Speaker 1: 29:44

Oh my gosh, you just like explained like your life, but specifically like the two weeks leading up to actually publishing my book, because I was going through the ARC reader process and like all that stuff and I vividly remember getting it. It was one of my first reviews and my book is a young adult-based book and the review was like did not finish because it was a YA. That was too YA.

Speaker 2: 30:15

And I was like if you're, Is that a compliment or an insult?

Speaker 1: 30:18

I was like if you're looking for, if you're reading a YA, you should expect it's going to be geared towards a YA y a on it anyways. Yeah, so it was um a little defeating.

Speaker 2: 30:38

But then other more positive and yeah, feedback came through and other reviews and stuff, so like, yeah, it's definitely a roller coaster though it's hard too, because when you're writing and doing all the like execution tasks, it's like just take it day by day, you know, hour by hour, and then when you get into the reviews, it's like you almost need to step out of that and look at it as a whole.

Speaker 2: 30:51

Because if you look at it hour by hour and then when you get into the reviews, it's like you almost need to step out of that and look at it as a whole, because if you look at it hour by hour, you're going to feel very like manic, right, because one hour things are great and you're getting all these good reviews, and then the next hour it's like you get that one that just punches you in the gut for whatever reason, and then maybe you go to sleep with that feeling and the next day is totally different. So it is a roller coaster. But I love asking people about this particular experience, because the more we all talk about it, the more we realize it's not us, it's just the process, right? Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that. And then did you want to talk about you?

Speaker 1: 31:23

I know you had some other lessons feeds into what we were just talking about is which really, really helped me through this process was celebrating your wins and accomplishments, no matter how small they are, from just finishing your first draft to booking your first book promotion and doing it successfully, and getting through that process like celebrate them all because this industry and this writing career it can be isolating and it can be defeating and there are moments where you'll be like, why am I doing this? And celebrating those moments will help lift you back up and really remind you why you're doing this and why you're so passionate about it.

Speaker 2: 32:14

Yeah, Something another writer I work with does is she keeps a folder on her computer and it I can't remember what she calls it, but it's like a cute name. That's basically like she screenshots all the good things, whether it's like an email, a review, a text message, whatever and if she's having a bad day she just opens that folder and she kind of scrolls through things and sometimes it's really easy to ignore, like you know, so-and-so's text message that says, like I read your book, I'm so impressed, you know, because you forget that and then you remember the one bad review. So if you know people listening ever struggle with this, you could also implement that writer strategy and keep your little wins folder just to remind you of good stuff.

Speaker 1: 32:52

It definitely. It makes it easier to have those days, because you're going to have those days where you're just you feel defeated or like you just struggle with writing, you have that mental block or something, and it'll help you. It's okay to feel that way, but then let it pass you through you and get back up and keep going, yeah, keep going, yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:17

And was there any more on your list?

Speaker 1: 33:19

I guess two other ones would be do your research, it helps and then another. The last one I would say are in any industry, connections are key. So, like today, I'm on your podcast because it's your connection, and so it's important to be mindful of the people you meet, and you never know where they'll lead you to too, and it's also about what you bring to the table for them and how you contribute to them or the world in general.

Speaker 2: 33:59

Yeah, and it's so fun thinking about connections too, because you just never know where they're going to come from. I was already thinking, as you were talking through some of the stuff earlier, I'm like I want you to meet this other writer that I work with, because you guys are similar vibes, you have similar goals, you're doing similar things and just thinking of all the knowledge and like support you guys could share. So and then like imagine you guys connect and who knows what will come out of that. So, yes, the writing community can feel like you write in the silo, but there are so many people and you just never know like which connections are going to lead to amazing things. So I think that's a wonderful little piece of advice.

Speaker 2: 34:34

But okay, so, margaret, I know you're working on book two and you said that the process you learned some stuff from book one and like you are looking at kind of the outlining and planning in a different way. How are you feeling about your abilities to tackle book two? Because there's kind of two ways to look at that. One is like it's a continuation of a series, which makes it hard sometimes, but also you've grown in skill set. So like, how are things feeling?

Speaker 1: 35:00

Again. Giddy, I guess, is the best word for me right now. That'll probably go up and down as I continue the process Again, I know there'll be other challenges and lessons to learn and I'm kind of looking forward to that because then again I'm growing. But I definitely feel like going through the process of getting one book out in the world, going fully through the process, has helped me anticipate what it's going to take to get book two out there as well, take to get book two out there as well, and it feels like roughly, things have gone smoother. I say that with hesitation because there are other challenges, but I definitely think that it has helped me better flesh out how to approach book two and better connect storylines and fun things.

Speaker 2: 35:54

And you probably have like a base layer of confidence just because you did it with book one. Like you published it, even if, like, we're all going to have little doubts, like I could have done this better or I could have made this more perfect you know we all have that but you did it. So now you've proven you can do it. And it's like sometimes, like you know, you hear the advice out there just publish it, just finish the draft, and I think people you can't understand how you're going to feel once you do that. Until you're in that. You know that position.

Speaker 1: 36:21

So is that?

Speaker 2: 36:22

I can imagine like that's how you're feeling. Like I did it. Now I can do it again.

Speaker 1: 36:26

Yeah, I definitely feel a lot more confidence. I do. I struggled a lot with imposter syndrome in book one and definitely another negative of social media. If you follow all the big name authors and everything and you see all this amazing stuff, it's so hard not to compare yourself to them yourself, to them or other authors who are even just slightly ahead of you of publishing a book or anything like that. It's hard not to compare, but I would highly encourage you to not and instead support those authors because they've been in your shoes, whether you've seen it or anything like that, so they've been where you are. And I would also say don't hesitate, be brave, to reach out and give them support or anything like that, because I think, surprisingly, I found when in the writing community, when you reach out to someone and want to engage with them genuinely and everything, they will pour back the support and tips and tricks because they just want to support you as well, yeah, because they, like you said they were in your shoes, they wanted that, and so now they're paying it forward.

Speaker 2: 37:44

I have actually found that to be true too, and a lot of the writers I've talked to they're like all I had to do was like ask out or reach out and be a normal human, a normal human, a normal, nice, normal human, and people were really nice to me in response. So, like, don't stay in your isolation bubble. If anyone's listening and you're like I need to do this more, just do it.

Speaker 1: 38:02

The first time is always the hardest, but the payoff is way worth it oh yeah, especially like I know I'm more geared towards being an introvert, so it it hard to again vulnerability and putting yourself out there. It takes a lot. So you know, try to be brave and do it.

Speaker 2: 38:22

Yeah, do it, it pays off, and I think most of us writers probably identify as introverts. So it's kind of like you know, really, at the end of the day, if you're an introvert reaching out to an introvert, they understand you, so they're going to be nice about it anyway. But I love that and so okay. So we're going to put a link to where people can find your book. We're going to put a link to your social media, your website, but can you just tell everyone where to find you like on the internet, real quick.

Speaker 1: 38:48

You can find me on my website it's wwwmargaretmantorcom, and then from there it has links to my social media. I'm on Instagram, tiktok. It has all the links to where you can buy my book if you would want to. I'd be honored if you would read it, and it also has a contact page. If you're a writer, you want to connect about writing, please feel free to reach out to me. I I'll give you whatever tips and tricks I have.

Speaker 1: 39:18

Hopefully they work for you. You got to find your own process, but you know I'm here, all right.

Speaker 2: 39:23

Well, you'll put all the links to that in the show notes so people can easily find you and get in touch. You've shared a lot of wisdom and great tips with us, but any like final parting words you want to give to everyone? No pressure, yeah, no pressure.

Speaker 1: 39:36

I would say another great avenue of approaching this industry, this career, this writing world. That is amazing. Look for genuine connections, meaning whether it's on social media, doing podcasts, reaching out in the writing community. Don't go out there just being like buy my book, buy my book, buy my book. Look for genuine connections and how you can contribute to other people and they'll contribute right back to you. It's about a balanced connection and genuine exchange.

Speaker 1: 40:14

And it's the support you get back. It fuels you. Let me just say it fuels you to keep going and you find the people that you connect with the most and you can nerd out about books and the writing process and everything, and it just makes it all worthwhile.

Speaker 2: 40:36

Yeah, and not only is that just a wonderful thing in general, but we're all a little bit iffy about marketing sometimes and I know a lot of listeners are like I don't know about marketing, I don't want to do it. The connections make it easier and they're just great to be a part of, and it makes the whole thing more fun and better. So there's, you know, other than the awkwardness at first, there's really nothing you have to lose and it just takes some of that, that isolation, out of the process. So I love that. I love that. That's your final parting tip for us, margaret, but thank you so much for coming on and sharing all this with us. I know that listeners are going to love it. So I expect you're going to get some DMs and some messages and, yeah, just thank you so much. We'll have to have you come back on either when you publish book two or if you ever want to share an update of how like promotions for book one went. We would love to have you back.

Speaker 1: 41:19

Yes, I would love to do that. My hope is to publish book two in the late, late 2025. So yeah, you heard it here first.

Speaker 2: 41:34

Yeah, I know I love it. So that's it for today's episode. As always, thank you so much for tuning in and for showing your support. If you want to check out any of the links I mentioned in this episode, you can find them in the show notes listed in the description of each episode inside your podcast player or at savannahgilbocom forward slash podcast. If you're an Apple user, I'd really appreciate it if you took a few seconds to leave a rating and a review. Your ratings and reviews tell Apple that this is a podcast that's worth listening to and, in turn, your reviews will help this podcast get in front of more fiction writers just like you. And while you're there, go ahead and hit that follow button, because there's going to be another brand new episode next week, full of actionable tips, tools and strategies to help you become a better writer. So I'll see you next week and until then, happy writing.