Speaker 1: 0:00

Being ill is more than a full-time job, because it's constantly there and you constantly have to remind yourself of it, but you can still be so many things.

Speaker 2: 0:09

In my mind, and I'm sure in your mind, there's no reason why that mom of three can write a book and you can't someone who has a chronic illness, right? It's just learning how to deal with whatever your situation is and learning strategies both mental, physical, practical, whatever to still accomplish your dreams. Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy podcast. My name is Savannah Gilbo and I'm here to help you write a story that works. I want to prove to you that writing a novel doesn't have to be overwhelming, so each week, I'll bring you a brand new episode with simple, actionable and step-by-step strategies that you can implement in your writing right away. So whether you're brand new to writing or more of a seasoned author looking to improve your craft, this podcast is for you. So pick up a pen and let's get started.

Speaker 2: 1:00

In today's episode, I'm chatting with fellow book coach, sandra Postma, about how to write when you have a chronic illness, and I wanted to have Sandra on the show because her message and the way she approaches working with, and not against having a chronic illness is so important.

Speaker 2: 1:15

So, yes, sandra is a book coach who specializes in working with writers who are facing health challenges, and she's also a woman with multiple chronic illnesses herself, so she really knows what it's like to face and deal with the physical, mental and she's also a woman with multiple chronic illnesses herself, so she really knows what it's like to face and deal with the physical, mental and emotional challenges that come with having a chronic illness. And we're going to talk about all of that and more in this episode. Plus, you'll hear Sandra's take on what she calls the superpower that comes with writing when you have a chronic illness on a daily basis. So I won't make you wait any longer, let's dive right into my conversation with Sandra Postma. Hi, sandra, welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy podcast. I'm so excited to have you here today.

Speaker 1: 1:56

Hi Savannah, Thank you so much for having me on.

Speaker 2: 1:59

Yes, and I gave you a little introduction already in the episode. But can you, in your own words, just introduce yourself to my audience? Let us know who you are, what you do and things like that. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:09

So, hi everyone, I'm Samana Pusma and I am a certified book coach and mentor to people facing health challenges in their daily life. So I help writers who are dealing with symptoms on a daily basis and I help them navigate that and I help them write the best books that they possibly can.

Speaker 2: 2:28

Love it and do you work with writers of all genres?

Speaker 1: 2:31

Basically. Yeah, I read widely myself. So yes, I have worked with writers from all sorts of genres.

Speaker 2: 2:41

That's great, and so I love that you specialize in working with writers who are facing chronic illnesses or maybe have a family member or someone they have to care for with a chronic illness. Why did you choose to specialize in this niche?

Speaker 1: 2:55

Good question, because I am chronically ill and I have been for over 20 years now and so it's just a huge part of of who I am.

Speaker 1: 3:07

And you know, for a very long time it was my sole identity was Sandra Prada Keel person and that was it, and it's taken me a long time to kind of come and see that I am more than that, and being a book coach has been an incredible importance in that transition for me, and I want that same thing for the writers that I work with, because so many writers who deal with chronic illness face certain challenges that people who don't have illnesses don't do. So it's like very small things, like writing habits and, you know, representation in stories, it's kind of all those. There may seem small things, but they add up massively right, and I felt that myself as a reader, as a writer. So when I became a book coach, it was quite apparent that I had a skill that I could use to help other people, and so it was quite natural to kind of go in that way, and it's been so incredibly fulfilling that I just made it my whole thing.

Speaker 2: 4:19

Yeah, I love it Now. It's part of your personality and part of your thing.

Speaker 1: 4:23

Basically yes.

Speaker 2: 4:24

I love that so much and it's your, you know. I think you're touching on something that's really important, which is that for most of us, writing is challenging for various reasons. Right Like, we usually come to the page, we don't know how to write a book, but we Google all the things and we try and we stumble around, and so it's like people with chronic illness who are writing still have all of those challenges. And then there's other challenges on top of that that are unique to you know someone who has a chronic illness. So if you were to kind of boil down, like what are I don't know, three to five of the main challenges that people who have chronic illnesses face as they're trying to write a novel, on top of the typical things that we normally struggle with as writers, I think the main thing is symptoms.

Speaker 1: 5:10

It means that you really want to write, maybe you have the time to write, but you have brain fog, you're too tired, you have too much pain, you have a fever, and this is really endless. That's one one of the things, so you can't write when you want to. One of the things that is really inherent with with people who are chronically ill is low self-esteem, and that is something that every time you sit behind the laptop and you are able to actually sit down and you immediately go oh but is my voice worth hearing? Because you know when? Because when you are ill, it comes with so much mental, emotional baggage, and every writer has their own cross to bear. I have my own that have nothing to do with being chronically ill. Busy mums, single parents, carers, full-time workers everyone has their own thing that they bring to their writing habits, so to speak.

Speaker 1: 6:03

And when you're chronically ill, the challenge really is to find the energy, to find the time, and momentum is a huge issue as well, because this is the problem with chronic illness it fluctuates so much that you wake up and you don't know whether or not you were able to write and you might be in a really good flow, like for two weeks're like oh, I'm really getting into it. I'm feeling so good these two weeks and I'm, you know, symptoms are, you know, kind of under control and I'm doing so well, and then suddenly something happens and you're back on, you know all this over, back in bed, and it takes another period to get through that. And then you get back to your story and like, oh, my momentum's gone.

Speaker 2: 6:43

Yeah, and.

Speaker 1: 6:44

I have to get back to it.

Speaker 2: 6:45

From what you're saying too, it sounds like, you know, sometimes you wake up and you might feel physically well, but mentally maybe you're not quite there that day, or it's the opposite, where you feel physically ill but mentally you really want to write and you really want to show up and you can't. So it's almost like the stars have to really align and you have to get the checkbox in both columns to be able to sit down and write, which is tough, absolutely true it is.

Speaker 1: 7:10

It is very tough and I think you know we sometimes underestimate, I think, how much writing is a mental game, right, and you know, I think for every writer, we always feel like you know, our skills aren't good enough. Like one day we're like, oh, I just wrote crap, and you know our skills aren't good enough. Like one day we're like, oh, I just wrote crap. And I think we all deal with that.

Speaker 1: 7:26

And so it is very true that you can wake up one day and be physically like, oh, yeah, I actually feel good today. And then you're like, oh, but I'm not in a good space, I feel really low about who I am and what I, you know, bring to the story and I don't believe in my story today. And then another day, another day, yeah, you're just so. And this, this is the one that happens most often is that you are absolutely willing and and keen to write and then your body said no, you need to rest, you go, you need to go and sit on the sofa. Because you know I think also on the resume how exhausting writing itself is for the brain, for the body. It's hugely exhausting and it can be so, so frustrating that the one thing that you love to do, which is to write, is then taken away from you because of your mental, something you can't control.

Speaker 2: 8:17

Oh, that is a thing, yeah, and that's really frustrating because, you know, I think a lot of us like to think we're in control or feel like we're in control, and when it's kind of your own body that's making you feel like you're not in control of your own agency, that's really, really challenging. So, definitely like physical challenges, mental challenges, emotional challenges on top of a thing that's already challenging to do.

Speaker 1: 8:42

Very true, yeah, and that that makes it so. It makes it a unique challenge to write when you are, when you have a chronic illness, and it's really about committing to like. This is what I want to do, and that's quite, you know, an easy thing, because when you're chronically ill, you have such often, when you have such a small life. You know, I spend lots of my time at home because I'm not physically well enough to go out, I'm not mentally well enough to go out, but I can sit down with a notebook or with my phone and write.

Speaker 1: 9:17

And I hear it often from clients when they come to me. They're like oh, it was my way out, writing was my way out Can't be normally employed, my way out, writing was my way out. Can't be normally employed, I can't be, you know, being the full-time worker that I really wish I could be, but what I can do is write stories, right, and then it gets really, really frustrating when actually that not that simple, yeah, um, and it's a wonderful thing that we do have writing to express ourselves and you know to deal with, you know the things that we deal with when you're chronically ill, when there's no hope, basically, because it's chronic for a reason. There's no cure, there's no treatment, but there is this thing that that keeps you going, and that's just incredible.

Speaker 2: 10:05

Yeah, that's the power of writing stories, right, the power of fiction, why we love it. And something you just said that's really interesting is like you talked about how sometimes the world can feel small when you're chronically ill. Sometimes you feel you are sometimes really trapped inside the house or you're, you know you just it's like you want to connect with the outside world, you want things to feel bigger than they are, and so that's what fiction can do for us. And I know that part of what you've talked about before is like writers with chronic illnesses, we want to be seen, or they want to be seen, and I think writers in general, we want to feel seen, we want to feel understood. And for someone with a chronic illness you talked earlier about, like you want to see more characters represented to help you feel seen and to help you feel like you're part of the world too. Do you want to talk about that? A?

Speaker 1: 10:56

little. Yeah, I think once I one of the things that I really realized as I was trading as a coach was really how underrepresented I was. You know, and especially we see so many amazing, you know, marginalized groups, rightly be like a fellow I exist.

Speaker 2: 11:16

I exist.

Speaker 1: 11:18

And yeah, and I was watching it, I was feeling like, oh, I'd recognize this, I can relate to this in my own way.

Speaker 1: 11:24

I was kind of feeling like, oh, I'd recognize this, I can relate to this in my own way.

Speaker 1: 11:29

And when I started to really dig into that, I kind of see like, oh, my goodness, when I was younger and I got ill, there was no book to look at to help me, there was no movie that could kind of make me feel seen and that I could relate to as a teenager dealing with this huge life-changing thing.

Speaker 1: 11:44

I was really just left on my own, teenager, dealing with this huge life-changing thing. I was really just left on my own to deal with this and I didn't realize the incredible impact of that until a few years ago. And then, because it made me see how important stories are, yeah, you know, how big. They help and heal and oh, just how amazing it is to feel seen and to be seen and to be represented, also when it comes to empathy from other people, right, and you know, when I realized that it was really one of the things that drew me to coaching writers like myself is I want you to feel seen, yeah, and not just in your stories, but just by your coach as well, because many of my clients don't necessarily write about people with chronic illness, but it always comes back Right.

Speaker 2: 12:34

One way or another.

Speaker 1: 12:35

And the same as in my stories. Some of them do include people with an illness or a disability, but others don't. Yeah, but it always comes back, you know, through emotions or through, you know, events that happen. Yeah, so it made me really see and feel the power of storytelling and that has quite made a quite big impact on myself. I kind of see how important it is to tell stories yeah, what an amazing uh mission, mission for you, right?

Speaker 2: 13:05

You're like I have chronic illness. I'm going to coach writers with chronic illnesses and get more representation out there. I think that's amazing and I bet you show up to your work and you're like I love my job.

Speaker 1: 13:19

Every day. Yeah, and this is the thing you know, when you live with something for 20 years and you become more limited, more limited by the year and you're kind of been given up by the medical world and even the people who are giving you help through, like council staff, they're like, well, I can kind of put you on the, you know, like a pile of unhelpful people, basically, and I was kind of like no, no know, this can't be it, right. Yeah, that's exactly when I found the coaching and purpose that it gave me and fulfillment that it's given me. Alongside of writing is is palpable.

Speaker 2: 13:59

Yeah, that's amazing yeah yeah, that's very cool and so it lets I. I like that. You're um, you're kind of leading us to where I want to talk about next and that's like how does someone with a chronic illness deal with trying to write a book? Like, what are some mindset strategies? What are some practical strategies? I know you talk about how you can actually use your chronic illness as kind of a superpower. So lead us into that.

Speaker 1: 14:27

I think practically it's quite. For me there's this one thing is that you write where you feel comfortable, because we so often hear about, oh, you have to sit behind your laptop on a desk, have a really clean desk, like shut off Wi-Fi, all those kinds of rules that exist. They don't work for us, because I can't often sit up like this, right, you know, and so my spot is on the side there and I often use either a notebook or my phone, and that's fine. It doesn't make you any less of a writer when you use your phone, right yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:02

It's one of those really weird things that kind of stuck like you need to be on the laptop. No, you don't.

Speaker 2: 15:07

No, you don't yeah, and are you talking about dictation or like typing on your phone?

Speaker 1: 15:11

I do both. Yes, I use both. I type on my phone and I also use dictation, because sometimes, like you know, migraines and you can't like they're in, yeah, but you do have an idea that you need to get down, yes, uh. So, yes, I use dictation a lot as well. And when it comes to mindset stuff, it's funny because when it comes to coaching chronically old people like this, exactly as you said, the skills are the same yeah you know, it doesn't change.

Speaker 1: 15:36

like a story is a story, a character needs to be as 3d to me as it needs to be for you. Right, that doesn't change. But what changes is the is the emotional side of. I really want to write today, but I can't. Does my voice even matter when no one seems to care about me, when I'm, I'm seen nowhere? Why would I write this story? Because will anybody even want to read it?

Speaker 1: 16:00

And it's really those kinds of things that are very unique to writers with a disability or a chronic illness. And I always say and that kind of tips is towards the superpower is that we often feel when your life is small, the saying goes write what you know. And they always come to me and go, but I know so little, yeah, I, I experience so little of life. And there's one thing that I always say, and it's when you look at Stephen King and you read his horror books, do you really believe that he encountered clouds with balloons? Was he really, you know, in misery, with his lover being forced to write a story?

Speaker 1: 16:51

Yeah, you know, it's those kinds of things and you're like that's not what he knew. He didn't write, or hope for him that he didn't write from experience, that's it. Well, what he did was write from his experience of fear. He knows what fear is. He knows what that human emotion does and how to channel that Right. And also, when you say that it's like it's about the emotions of people, it's not about the experiences that you have, you can giggle that, yeah, basically. And also when I say that're like, oh, no, it's about emotions, yeah, and I'm like, when you are chronically ill, you experience so much pain, loss of life, your own life, your own future loss of friendships, loss of family, loss of jobs, but I could go on. In that sense, yes, you also lose trust, exactly what you said. You lose complete trust in your own life. You lose agency. You know you have to surrender to this thing that you didn't choose and it's with you for the rest of your life and that's something that's quite heavy.

Speaker 1: 18:01

And so writing is human experiences and emotions, and if there's anything we know, it's emotions and feelings and that we use, and I truly feel that it's a superpower, because when I write about stuff that I know, I can tell that it resonates with people. And that's not because I did a trip around the world I wish I had. I resonates with people, yes, and that's not because I, you know, did a trip around the world I wish I had. Yeah, I wish I had, yes, but I haven't. But what I do know is what pain is Right, and that is often what people relate to. What readers relate to, you know, it's the pain of life, of like, oh my gosh, she gets it, and that's I mean. Obviously we wish we didn't feel this pain, that we didn't wish. We wish we didn't know all these emotions up close, this much. But we do so we might as well use it in our creative expression and in our stories, because it makes them so much stronger.

Speaker 2: 18:58

Might as well turn it into a positive when we can, and so I don't specialize in working with writers with chronic illnesses I don't have a chronic illness myself.

Speaker 2: 19:07

However, I have worked with five or six writers over the course of my time who have chronic illnesses and I agree with everything you just said, that like their stories, they're able to get to something so much deeper and so much stronger quicker, because it's like I lived this. I know what it feels like to have you know that, almost like the inciting incident of their life right, finding out I have a chronic illness and what am I going to do about that and whatever the conflicts that come up. So it's like they, because they live it, they can tap into that so quickly and like not saying other people can't. Of course we all can, we all have different skills and things, but I love how you're reframing it. It's like let's use it, let's put it to good use and help you, the writer with chronic illness, get to that point that you want, which is publishing a book and sharing your story and feeling seen and heard and all that. So I think that's just wonderful thank you, yeah, I think it's.

Speaker 1: 20:03

It's one of those things. Often when clients come to me, they are scared and they don't feel like they are right. You know that they can be writers because they feel so much. There's so many blocks for them, and when I kind of work with them for quite a while they're like oh, and often the first thing they say is thank you for making me see that I can be a writer.

Speaker 1: 20:23

Yes, and just that transformation in itself is worth everything. And it's so true that everyone has their own crosses and everyone has experiences and pain in their own way, and so you know, using that in our storytelling. It also depends what genre you write, whether or not you want to escape write, whether or not you want to escape, whether or not you want to dig into what you've been through. But in all ways, even if you want to escape, stories are about. You know there are lows in the story right, there have to be, and you can always use that chain through those scenes. And it's exactly as you said. We'd rather not know this, but we do, and we might as well take a positive out of it and make some use out of our situation. Really.

Speaker 2: 21:15

Yeah, and to speak kind of on that escapism note, I've even seen some of the writers that I mentioned earlier. It's almost like they. Of course we put ourselves into our protagonist, right, we all do to a certain extent but they almost sometimes can use it as a way to rewrite what they wish you know could happen, or they want to show, like you know I'm thinking of the fourth wing book, right, and that woman, the character, has a chronic illness, right, and she's, she finds strength in a different way and like, how inspiring is that? So there's just so many options and I think, like what I'm hearing you say, what everything boils down to is like you have to have compassion for yourself, because not every day is going to be, you know, writing a thousand words and doing what other people can do, which, if I were to back up and like, just think about that advice, I don't love that advice for anybody you know, chronic illness or not.

Speaker 2: 22:07

I don't think we should pressure ourselves to stick to a certain workout per day unless that works for someone in their process. But we all have a life, we all have things we have to do, we all have days where we don't feel like writing, but, yeah, it comes down to self-compassion, it comes down to like knowing I'm sure I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure, with the chronic illness, although it seems random, there are probably like patterns to things, in a way right when, like, I've been feeling ill for so long, like three weeks I'm not, you know, not saying three is the magic number, but I've been ill. There's going to be light at the end of the tunnel and when there's light at the end of the tunnel, I want to make sure to make use of that time and, it's like you know, plan for that and then allow yourself to go into that period of I don't feel well and it's okay either way, you know, yeah, it's exactly like that, and I will be often call it our baseline.

Speaker 1: 22:59

We have, like, over a longer period of time, you have a certain baseline and within that baseline you know exactly what you can do. So it can be writing two hours a week, it can be two hours a day, it can be two hours a month, and you know the baseline changes, it fluctuates, it differs on different periods of your life, different periods of the year even, but it's exactly that. It's trying to create a sort of pattern for yourself, and especially an emotional one. Again. Yeah, because it's exactly what you just said. It's about being compassionate for yourself, which is interesting because so often us writers are very empathetic people not to ourselves exactly.

Speaker 1: 23:42

Yeah, that's exactly the point. We're not to ourselves. Yeah, we're extremely kind and empathetic to other people and to their stories, but when we turn the camera around, we're like I suck yeah, and I should be perfect, and I should, I should do all these things right?

Speaker 2: 23:58

someone this astrologer that I really like he talks about how we shouldn't should all over ourselves and that's like exactly what we all do. We're like I should do this, I should do that, and then if we were to give our like best writing friend advice, we would never talk to them like that.

Speaker 1: 24:14

I know it's exactly like that and it's even as a coach. I do it because they say all these beautiful things to you and meanwhile I'm like, yeah, nervous, and I'm really like I, I, oh my, and like you know all the shits, like I should do this, I should do that, and when you turn around, actually you're doing your best, you're doing your best.

Speaker 2: 24:32

Yeah, that's all you can always do. Yeah, yeah, and I actually find like of course it's hard to reach that point of true self-compassion where you're like I'm just going to go with the flow and things like that. But the more you try, the more you kind of stumble through it. It does get easier to understand the patterns and to have that compassion for yourself. Of course you're never going to be perfect at it, but it's kind of like you have to go through the stumbling of trying to get to that feeling that you want and the ability to sit down and write, when you do have that mental time and space and physical time and space yeah, absolutely, and I always.

Speaker 1: 25:08

I'm really adhered to the. I'm always trying my best, even if it looks different every day yeah it's?

Speaker 1: 25:15

it's that kind of like I. I'm completely acknowledging that I'm going to fluctuate when it comes to my mental and physical health, but even when that happens, I still do my very best. Yeah, when it comes to my story writing and it, and exactly being compassionate with myself when I've just had a bad week, you know where I've tried my best but nothing happened, and then not putting yourself in the ground, you know, stomping on yourself going. You should have exactly you should have done this.

Speaker 1: 25:47

You should have done that. It's hard, it's like it's hard work. It's hard and certainly reminding yourself.

Speaker 2: 25:54

Definitely, and something that I do with the writers I work with, whether they have chronic illnesses or not, is it's like you have to separate what's a fact and what's like a thought or an opinion or a feeling, right? So in that example you just gave, a fact is that maybe you didn't write for a week. There's literally no words that you produce. That's a fact, right? A fact by itself is neutral. It literally means nothing. So you assign the meaning to that right, and you can choose, as someone again with a chronic illness or not, are you going to look at that fact and say I didn't write a thousand words this week like I wanted, I didn't write any words.

Speaker 2: 26:31

I'm a failure, my story's never going to be told Like all these things we catastrophize. Or are you going to say I didn't write a thousand words, I didn't write anything this week, it's just a neutral fact and I'm going to try again next week, you know? So it sounds simple. It's very hard to do, especially we're in the moment, but you know, I live with anxiety and depression. I have, like you know, they fluctuate different at different times, but that's one of the things that's helped me the most. It's like what's a fact? Facts are always neutral. You know you could prove it in a court of law that this is a fact, and then everything else is up to you how, what you're going to bring to that fact.

Speaker 1: 27:10

And it is that word, fact and neutral has really helped me yeah, and it's funny because I work with with a therapist who says exactly that as well. So we're really working hard on that. And, yeah, one of the things she also uses really in relation to chronic illness and chronic pain is there is the pain of the illness, both physical and emotional. Yes, it's there, it's just physical, it's there again, it's a fact. Yes, and then she what she calls that clean pain. That's the clean pain, and then you've got the dirty pain which you add yourself, which is emotional, which is this pain means that I can't do this, that I can't do that, that I suck, that I don't deserve good things, that everything I'm ever going to do is going to end in failure. That is all the dirty pain that comes with it. Basically, just all the thoughts.

Speaker 1: 28:00

It's exactly kind of the same idea, but very much attached to the chronic illness and chronic pain.

Speaker 2: 28:07

Um, yeah, terminology, yeah yeah, and it's such an interesting way to look at it because, you know, sometimes it's like I. I just want to make it clear that of course we're all going to have these thoughts. The thoughts aren't. It's not like we can say you're bad for having these thoughts, right again, it's just like a fact of life that we all spiral from time to time and we all have our emotions. But it's just kind of knowing how to recognize, like, basically, fact from fiction, right? Like, although our thoughts are very real and our feelings and thoughts are very real and valid, they're still kind of our version of fiction, right?

Speaker 1: 28:41

Like they're not that neutral fact and it's funny because my my therapist often says to me you are not chronically ill, you are a person who has chronic illness yes, and it's kind of the same thing of going from facts to um, distancing yourself from something and not making it your full identity, when that's something that I also have to constantly remind myself of.

Speaker 1: 29:07

I am more than that. I am a writer and, yes, I use my experiences, because I'm human. Of course I do. Yeah, all again, use the crosses that we've. You know the traumas that we've been through. We all use them in our writing right but as long as you are able to kind of you know, take that step back and kind of go okay. Did this paragraph really suck? Or is this just you know, my own trauma and low self-esteem coming through?

Speaker 2: 29:34

Right.

Speaker 1: 29:35

Can I actually make this paragraph better? Yeah, like, be a bit more neutral about it. Like, okay, I just want this to be the best it can be. Fine, it sucks, but let's make it better than it is.

Speaker 2: 29:46

Yeah, and I like something you said earlier that like, specifically, right now we're talking about writers who have chronic illnesses, but everyone deals with their own stuff, right, it could be parents, it could be, you know, caring for someone elderly in your life, or whatever like it, and or it could just be like a whole heap of self self-doubt because maybe you didn't graduate high school or whatever, right, there could be so many different things. So I like what you said about you're a writer. You're a person with a chronic illness. You're not. However, you said it the opposite way, which was you're chronically ill, right, yeah, it sounds.

Speaker 1: 30:21

I'm Dutch, it sounds better in Dutch. It really kind of is attached to the identity of yourself. Yeah, but yeah, it's basically about taking that distance from it's not all of me, right? And again, I've been sick for over 20 years. It's only the last five years that I've been able to kind of take that step back, so it's been a very real work. I mean, I got ill when I was a teenager, so it sticks to you Like, yeah, I mean I got ill when I was a teenager, so it sticks to you like you know, that was the time that you shaped your own identity.

Speaker 1: 30:49

So when you're ill and you can't do anything, that is your identity yeah and it took me a very long time to shed that, but once you realize okay, it's exactly what you said. I'm Savannah, I have depression, I have anxiety, but I also have my amazing moments, right. I love lots of people. People love love me. I am a bit coach, I'm an editor, I'm all these great things, yeah. And it's hard sometimes when your whole life is dictated from the moment you wake up by. How do I feel today, right, something that is not under your control, and it's really, really hard. And so being ill is more than a full-time job, because it's constantly there and you constantly have to remind yourself of it, but you can still be so many things inside that illness.

Speaker 2: 31:36

And I just love this too, as someone who's I'm coming from it, from outside the world, of being a person with a chronic illness, Because, again, I do not have a chronic illness and I just like I'm imagining that if I was someone with a chronic illness and I was experiencing all of this, I might look at other people, like, let's say, a mom of three who she published a book, and I might feel jealous. Your mind correct me if I'm wrong. There's no reason why that mom of three can write a book and you can't, someone who has a chronic illness, right? It's just learning how to deal with whatever your situation is and learning strategies both mental, physical, practical, whatever to still accomplish your dreams.

Speaker 1: 32:24

It's one of the really hard things when you're chronically ill and it's such a huge, humongous part of your life is to kind of go, but it's not all. That is me. Yes, as you kind of go like I can do this, which is really hard, because now I can't run a marathon. Yeah, well, I could, but it wouldn't be a good idea. Yeah, you know, it's one of those things like is it worth the effort? Yeah, worth it to you to do those things? Yes, I could, you know, enter a dancing competition. I could totally do that. Would it be worth it? Maybe, because I love dancing? I would be sick for three months, but it might be worth it because I haven't danced in way too long.

Speaker 1: 33:03

Is it worth writing a book, even if it takes three years? Yep, that's the question you need to answer. And you know you can write novellas. You can write short stories, right. It doesn't all have to look like a 800 page novel, obviously, right, I've written so many short stories because my energy and my brain fog was so that I needed to finish a story in a month.

Speaker 1: 33:27

Yeah, otherwise my brain would just kind of go you know, yeah, that worked really well for me for a period. And now I'm writing a novel and I know that it's going to take me probably three years to write it and I'm okay with that. Yeah, it's taken me a long time to be okay with that and to commit to that and to know that I have the perseverance to do it. Yeah, and it is.

Speaker 1: 33:52

It is sometimes hard to kind of go and I don't want to say victim mode, because I have such a negative connotation, even though it's a really natural state to be in right. So I don't mean it in any negative way, but it's easy to go. You can't do that. Well, actually you can, but you have to decide whether or not it's worth the effort for you and the consequences of doing the thing, because, yes, right, if it will come with pain because you can't write as much as you want, write as fast as you want, it's going to take a longer time. If that is a problem for you, then yeah, you shouldn't do it. But most writers will say I'm a writer I write.

Speaker 1: 34:29

It's worth it yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:30

And there's like, I think, three things I want to say about that. So of course, it comes back to self-compassion, which we've all we've talked about already. But the other thing is like we can reframe, like, if I can only write a short story or only write a novella, talk about some great practice you know of like honing your skills with each new short story or even with each like new scene that you write.

Speaker 1: 34:51

If that's all you have the energy for, what a great way to hone your craft yes, you know, I learned so much from writing those short stories, because short stories are actually. It sounds easy, they're not.

Speaker 2: 35:03

They're actually they're hard because you have to dig into you.

Speaker 1: 35:06

Like you have to build a world, you have to build a character that people care about in a very short amount of words, yeah, and so they're extremely good practice and at the same time, especially in this really fast world of scrolling and swiping, it's a great way to get readers. I got my first readers through my short story. Then. I still remember those reviews oh, that's awesome. And to this day they get me going on bad days Like, yeah, I did that, then they enjoyed it.

Speaker 2: 35:34

I might not be a bad as far as I think, yeah, and all that comes from the compassion, self-compassion, of allowing yourself to do something that's not a full length novel and to kind of work with the time and energy you have. So I think that's very cool.

Speaker 1: 35:48

I really treat my novel now as every chapter is a short story. Yeah, it helps because, you know, knowing that it's going to take me three years, it helps my brain right. This is a practice that I've discovered for myself that for me it works to kind of see it as one whole thing, because then I can really, you know, put my effort into that chapter it's going to take this amount of time and you know, put my effort into that chapter it's gonna take this amount of time and you know everyone has a thread. Through writing short stories in a village, you can really kind of discover what works for you, what doesn't right, before you attack that whole 400 page yeah best of a novel you can play with genres too, like write a mystery one day and a fantasy the other day, and who knows right?

Speaker 2: 36:28

that's really fun. I security my brain, yeah that's exactly what I did.

Speaker 1: 36:33

Yeah, I love it. I'm discovering what I loved and what was gonna happen.

Speaker 2: 36:36

Yeah, I think that's so cool and working with how you feel mentally and physically. So I think that's the important piece is. It's like we can all explore, right, but we need to allow ourselves that compassion to be able to explore and do these kind of things. I'm kind of going to bring us to the end of our episode here, and I'm imagining that through the work you do because this is something I do with writers and you probably have to ask them like why are you writing this book, why is it so important to you? And things like that and I think, based on what you're saying, it sounds like if you don't know that why and your why is not strong enough you might feel a little what do I want to say? Like off balance, not as grounded in what motivates you. So can you talk about that a little?

Speaker 1: 37:21

Yeah, absolutely. The interesting thing about working with people who have a chronic illness is that they often don't realize how much their story is actually about themselves. Yeah, because they often. I mean, I, I work with every genre, but I have a large point of fantasy writers and they come to me with stories about dragons, yeah, stories about space adventures and they come to me and they're like I need to escape, I need to escape.

Speaker 1: 37:47

and then we go down to the why and they're like I need to escape, I need to escape. And then we go down to the why and they're like, yes, I want to escape. And then I put, I pointed something in their like plot and I'm like how is that? Is that? Is that really escaping?

Speaker 1: 38:01

And you kind of really gently go deeper and deeper and then they realize that actually they're healing, yeah, through this story, and they didn't realize that. Or they're healing through this story and they didn't realize it. Or they're not healing that you mentioned it before but actually changing what happened to them, but through like a sci-fi lens or a fantasy lens, right, and they're trying to not live a different life but explore the possibilities of what it would have been like if Right. And only when they reach that point are they like, yeah, now I understand the story and so, yeah, you're absolutely right, it's the why that often gets overlooked. And then you go back to it and it's like, oh my gosh, yeah, and it's also a very good way of finding themselves in their story. Just especially when you're politically ill, you want to get away from it when you write right, uh. And then when they find out that actually it is about that, at first it might kind of retreat, like I don't, like I want this.

Speaker 2: 39:01

and then the next week they come back to me like yes, this is what the story needs to be yeah, and so like, as, as an example, we said earlier that sometimes if you're a writer with a chronic illness, you might not feel seen, you might feel invisible. So imagine Sandra's coaching me and I'm writing a story where the protagonist feels invisible and they don't feel seen, and and it's like, yeah, you, you might retreat from that Cause. You're like I just wanted to write a story about dragons, right, or whatever. And then, because I see this happen too, where they retreat, and then they're like, oh, but wait, this is what I know, I know how to do this and, yeah, it feels good actually to explore a character who feels the same things as I do and take them on that emotional journey of the story Exactly that, yeah, and it's kind of a nice thing when you see that transformation in them, kind of go.

Speaker 1: 39:53

I don't know really what, just what I want to say with this. So I'm coming to you, please help me, like I want this story. It's something inside me says I need to tell this, but I, and then you get to it and they're like oh, yeah, that's gold, yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 40:08

Yeah, yeah, that's gold. Yes, absolutely, yeah, I love that. So, okay, I know you have a free guide for listeners.

Speaker 1: 40:16

Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Yes, any writer here who identifies with being chronically ill or dealing with daily symptoms, whether or not mental, physical disabilities. I have a quite dense guide on how to write when you have a chronic illness and it comes with practical tips, mindset tips. It explains a bit more about the superpower of being ill but also a writer, and it has lots of examples of what to do when you really really want to write and you can't, because there are definitely options for you to that you can do different things that are still writing, even if it's not worked on the page yeah, it's a great little guide and we will link to that in the show notes.

Speaker 2: 40:53

And then where can people find you on the internet?

Speaker 1: 40:57

I am. My business is called your story mentor, so you can go to yourstorymentorcom slash resources, which is also where you can find the guide and other resources, and I'm on instagram a lot, which is at yourstorymental as well.

Speaker 2: 41:11

Yeah, and we will link to both of those in the show notes as well. But, sandra, thank you so much for coming on today. I think a lot of listeners who are chronically ill, who have a chronic illness, are going to love this episode, but I also think that people who have just daily struggles of writing a novel are also going to take a lot from this episode. So I just appreciate everything you shared and just coming on the show. So, thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 41:34

Oh, thank you so much for having me Savannah.

Speaker 2: 41:40

So that's it for today's episode. As always, thank you so much for tuning in and for showing your support. If you want to check out any of the links I mentioned in this episode, you can find them in the show notes listed in the description of each episode inside your podcast player or at savannahgilbocom forward slash podcast. If you're an Apple user, I'd really appreciate it if you took a few seconds to leave a rating and a review. Your ratings and reviews tell Apple that this is a podcast that's worth listening to and, in turn, your reviews will help this podcast get in front of more fiction writers just like you. And while you're there, go ahead and hit that follow button, because there's going to be another brand new episode next week, full of actionable tips, tools and strategies to help you become a better writer. So I'll see you next week and until then, happy writing.