Speaker 1: 0:43

all of the hiccups, all of the good things, that big mixture of book publishing that you need all of it in order to move forward and I'm grateful for all of it. I'm grateful for all the mistakes and I'm grateful for all the wins, and it's just all kind of mixed together in a book soup. Every time you stop and want to fix it or you think it's boring or it's not good enough. Just keep writing, Just keep writing.

Speaker 2: 1:12

Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy podcast. My name is Savannah Gilbo and I'm here to help you write a story that works. I want to prove to you that writing a novel doesn't have to be overwhelming, so each week, I'll bring you a brand new episode with simple, actionable and step-by-step strategies that you can implement in your writing right away. So, whether you're brand new to writing or more of a seasoned author looking to improve your craft, this podcast is for you. So pick up a pen and let's get started. Today's episode is another when Are they Now?

Speaker 1: 1:44

episode, and I've been dying to share this one with you. My guest is Jennifer Lauer, whose name you might recognize because she was on the podcast before back in 2023.

Speaker 2: 1:53

In that episode, which is episode number 85, jennifer and I talk through what it was like to write her first draft, go through all the editing phases and eventually indie publish her debut novel, the Girl in the Zoo.

Speaker 1: 2:05

I will link to that episode in the show notes if you want to check it out before tuning into today's episode. Now, speaking of today's, episode.

Speaker 2: 2:13

Jennifer is back to share how her book launch went and to give us some insights into what worked, what didn't work and things like that.

Speaker 1: 2:20

Plus, she's pulled some stats so you can see how her marketing efforts paid off as well. We're also going to talk about the next big milestone that Jennifer just hit. She published her second novel on October 31st 2024, and it is totally different from her first book. So her first book, the Girl in the Zoo, was a dystopian sci-fi, and her new book Start Somewhere.

Speaker 1: 2:40

The Strange Chronicles, Book 1, is a paranormal mystery which is really, really fun. So we talk a little bit about that and what it was like switching genres, how the writing, editing and process went for this book, as well as what her marketing plans are, now that she's, you know, already been through a book launch and book marketing for her last novel. So it's going to be a really jam-packed episode full of great insights, and we'll dive into that in one second.

Speaker 2: 3:05

But first I want to read you the back cover copy of her book to give you a little context for our conversation. So here goes. Newly minted investigator Gray Cooper finds herself alone and adrift after her mother's untimely death.

Speaker 1: 3:19

Eager to move past her grief, Gray throws herself into her very first case, locating Werner.

Speaker 2: 3:24

Vondale, a missing grandfather with ties to Area 51.

Speaker 1: 3:28

Joe Nebraska only needs one more signature to close out Madeline Cooper's estate, her daughter Grace. After a fiery first meeting, an unlikely friendship forms, causing Jo to question everything and join Gray as she embraces her destiny to become Detective Gray Cooper investigator of the paranormal.

Speaker 2: 3:45

With every twist and turn the Strange Chronicles Start Somewhere offers a reading experience where the ordinary becomes the extraordinary, and every ending is a new beginning.

Speaker 1: 3:54

All right, so, with that being said, let's dive right into my conversation with Jennifer Lauer.

Speaker 1: 4:02

Hi, jennifer, welcome back to the Fiction Writing Made Easy podcast. I'm so glad to have you back today. Hi, savannah, I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, and we're saying Jennifer is coming back today because she was on this podcast before, all the way back in February of 2023. And back at that point we talked about getting her first book, which is called the Girl in the Zoo, to the finish line and getting it out. I think that was the day before your publish day, correct? That's right, yes, yeah, and now it's out in the world and we have a ton to catch you up on. So we kind of wanted to do a where are they now? Type of episode which is going to be really fun and different. This is the first one we've ever done like this, jennifer, so very cool.

Speaker 1: 4:43

Yeah, the pressure, the pressure, yeah, so, okay. So, back in 2023, like we just said you published your first book, the Girl in the Zoo. We're going to talk a little bit about like how did that go? How did the marketing go? Was there anything like old Jennifer wishes she knew before she did all the marketing and stuff like that? And then we're going to fast forward into what's happening. At the time this podcast episode goes live, which is your new book, and we'll talk about that more in a second.

Speaker 1: 5:09

But before we get into all of that, jennifer, which I know there are a ton of juicy details can you just quickly let everyone know who you are, what you do and things like that? Okay, yeah, my name is Jennifer Lauer and I'm an author now. So I write novels primarily, and also for TV and film. I also have a fiction podcast, so I just try to write all the things. I'm actually trying to teach myself how to write a song now because I want to write all of the things. Love it. Yeah, jennifer is a very ambitious creative, which I love.

Speaker 1: 5:44

So, jennifer, take us back If you can remember. I know it's a long time ago at this point, but take us back to the. You can remember I know it's a long time ago at this point, but take us back to the end or the beginning of 2023, when you were publishing the Girl in the Zoo. We haven't heard from you since the day before your book was out in the world. So what has happened since then? What was like? Give us the highlight reel of your publishing and marketing? I guess no big deal, okay. Well, so I have kind of the wins and sort of things that went wrong, so I guess I'll try to intersperse them, but the funny thing is like it starts off.

Speaker 1: 6:18

We'll start off with a couple of hiccups that happened, because two things that happened right at the beginning were the launch date got messed up with Amazon, so actually Amazon ended up launching my book before the actual launch date and sending copies to people who weren't supposed to get their copies until the launch date.

Speaker 1: 6:45

Anyway, that really stressed me out, but it turned out to be a nothing burger. It wasn't a big deal at all really, but I was very stressed about it. So that was the start. And then the next big hiccup, unfortunately, was my big launch, where I had to man a party and an online launch A lot of the online stuff. I was waiting until right before to do a lot of the work and I ended up getting COVID for the first time that week and so that was not expected I had to postpone and my online party. I was still pretty sick but I tried so hard to have the energy for it and I got COVID really bad. I know some people didn't get it very bad, but I hadn't had it and you know I got it like the first time right at my book launch.

Speaker 2: 7:38

Of course, yeah, like literally that week.

Speaker 1: 7:40

I remember yeah and yeah, so that was a rough start, yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:46

When it rains it pours on your book launch? I guess I guess so. But you know also if I could interject, cause I just launched my book and I've seen other writers go through this and there's always hiccups and it's you know, things that are. Some of them are in our control, some of them are out of our control. Like, look at, Jennifer's were totally out of her control, and that was kind of the flavor of my hiccups as well.

Speaker 1: 8:10

So I love to just let people know, like, whatever you think you're going to need as far as time, double it and then add in some more white space, because things will happen and it's just part of the game. I think Completely, yes, okay, so what's the next thing on your list? Okay? So now I'll go into some of the positives that happened, because you know I had kind of a rough start. But I will say some of the things that worked out for me that I'm really excited about are okay.

Speaker 1: 8:42

So I posted the Girl in the Zoo on NetGalley to open it up to arc readers and get some early reviews, and I had been warned that you know it can be harsh, you know you're getting this very broad spectrum of reviews, but I will say that it was really beneficial to me to do that and I ended up. Right now I have over 200 amazon reviews, which was way past my goal. I think I'd wanted to try to get 50 that first year. So I have over 200 there and about 250 on Goodreads. So for me that was a really good choice to go and if I could pause you there.

Speaker 1: 9:21

You said a net galley is kind of a wide range of readers and you've been told to expect somewhat negative things. Can you talk about that a little more, because some people might not know what you mean by that? Well, it's a big pool of readers and it's discerning readers. Right, it's people who read lots of literature, and it's librarians, indie booksellers, major booksellers. It's a lot. It's just a big group of readers. So you're going to get people who love your genre, don't love your genre, and they're just very discerning readers.

Speaker 1: 9:59

I guess I like what you said there. I think it's the key point that people did and will pick up your book, even if they're like I don't read sci-fi, I don't like dystopian stories, and they pick it up and then they give you a one-star review, even though it's very clear that your story is what it is. You know, right, exactly, you had a few of those. I remember you being like I got my first negative review and it's like this person literally said they don't read your genre. So how much weight are we going to give that review over all the other positive ones? You know, yes, exactly. So you kind of you're putting yourself out there for the risk. But I also tried to keep in mind that when you have like the negative reviews as well as the positive reviews, then you're kind of like reaching a greater readership, because once you get past your friends and family, five stars and four star reviews, you feel, when that happens, where you're starting to get a bigger public opinion, which is good and bad. Right, did you do anything to get those reviews other than, like? I know, netgalley they know that they're signing up to read a book and give reviews, but did you put anything in the back of your book or in your newsletter or anything like that? I did. I do have a newsletter, but it's a very small newsletter, so I don't know that that was a huge driver. I did try to use social media, reach out to influencers, send my book out, but honestly, all of those things were so small compared to the results I got from NetGalley. I feel like that was the big driver of reviews for me. Okay, cool, yeah, and they're still coming in too. Jennifer just hit the 200 on Amazon in the last couple months.

Speaker 1: 11:40

Yes, and I actually I can jump over to the other exciting thing, which kind of drove more reviews recently too is. I was able to get featured in a BookBub sale and that was so big for me. I took a lot of tries and when it was on sale for 99 cents, so just the ebook, and it was on sale. First I did an international sale, so that's UK, Canada and Australia and to my great surprise and excitement, my book hit number one on a bunch of Amazon lists and got to be up with some really big books. And then, after the international sale, I tried for a US sale and I got that as well and it went to number one in the US, which I just was so exciting, totally shocked and was very excited to get that little orange badge of number one bestseller. Even though it's fleeting, it's very, very exciting. You've got to get those screen grabs, but seeing your book with other big sci-fi writers on the same list is very inspiring. So that also drove some reviews.

Speaker 1: 12:56

And I will say that just a reminder to writers that when you put your book on sale, so it's going for 99 cents, so you're getting these big sales numbers, but you're not necessarily getting the big money numbers because it's on sale for $0.99. So, yes, it's great You're reaching more readers, so you have to focus on that, but it's definitely not like going to pay the mortgage, yeah, and it's that kind of just goes back to what is your goal and that was your goal. Right, it was to reach more readers, not like make a billion dollars off your book Although like that would be nice, right. But yeah, exactly For readers to find who your people are, because you had other books in the pipeline and things like that. So I think that's very cool and you said a few key words I want to go back to.

Speaker 1: 13:40

Is that you're like I tried to get on BookBub in the US. Talk about that, because I don't know if many people know, like A, what that means and why it's so hard. Okay, so BookBub is a newsletter that goes out to readers and you have to submit your book for the opportunity to have your sale advertised in their newsletter. So you submit to them, you fill out like an application, basically with all of your info on your book and they say yes or no depending on your category. So it's defined by genre and you do have to pay for it. That's. The other thing is you pay for the placement but you can't pay for it until you're offered the spot, so they have limited spots in every genre. You applied a few different times, right? Yes, yes, you have to keep trying, because I definitely did not get it right away.

Speaker 1: 14:39

Yeah, and that was a big thing too, because you were like I'm just going to keep trying, and I feel like I've talked to. Other writers were like yeah, bookbub didn't work out. Okay, well, how many times did you try?

Speaker 1: 14:47

We just tried once, and it's like yeah you really have to keep trying, because look at what Jennifer's saying she got in the UK, canada, australia which bumped her book to number one in a bunch of categories. Then, because of the success in that, bookbub was like we're going to give you a spot in the US, yes, yes. So totally keep up with it, definitely keep up with it, and the longer your book is out too, and the more reviews you have, I think that helps. I don't know exactly why they choose certain books, but I definitely attribute a lot of my later reviews to being in that sale and getting to number one. It definitely gives you that visibility, especially internationally, because before I did the international sales, I did not have a lot of international sales because I wasn't focused on marketing there. So now I have quite a number of readers in the UK now, which is very exciting, very cool. And just a note for us and for anyone who's listening I feel like we have to do something with that number one badge. So we got to put that on your website or something. Yes, there are so many things I need to do, but, yes, that's a good idea. If anyone else out there has that number one badge, just sit in there, do something with it. This is your reminder, yeah, but that's so cool, okay.

Speaker 1: 16:08

So BookBub, netgalley was there anything else on the things that went well list? Yes, okay. So a couple of things where I did get a Kirkus review and I submitted to and it was positive. So that's good Cause. You know that can go either way, yeah. And then I also submitted to the book life prize, which is publishers weekly indie section of their site, and that ended up being really helpful for me too. So I submitted my book for the Book Life Prize, which there's a prize, and I didn't win, but I will say the positives that came from. It was a great review and this is from Publishers Weekly Indie. Someone will read and review your book, and I got a really good review and I literally missed the semi-finalists by one. I was like one below. That's awesome, though, but it was a really really kind review.

Speaker 1: 17:11

And then the other thing that came out of that was I was invited to do the Book Life Elite anthology. So they do an anthology for their top rated books and that anthology is sold in libraries. So I think they use Overdrive and they submit your book to libraries. So the Girl in the Zoo is with Book Life Elite Anthology as well, so it's like another way to get more readers. Yeah, that's awesome, and I know getting in libraries was one of your personal goals for that book, so that's very cool it was. I definitely have a soft spot for libraries. Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1: 17:49

One other thing I did want to share about is that I did the LA Festival of Books twice with the girl in the zoo and I wanted to share that because it was. I feel like that was a great way to meet readers in person. There's so many things that we don't do in person anymore and I feel like that was a great way to meet readers in person. There's so many things that we don't do in person anymore and I feel like the festival was a great place to do that and I just feel like being out with readers and writers. It was really informative and to see other authors with their books and what they're selling, and I just feel like it was really good data research being at the book festival.

Speaker 1: 18:28

But I will say I did have another hiccup at the book festival. This is another tip If you're at any sort of book fair. I ordered a bunch of books to sell at the book festival and everyone tells you when you get the boxes of books to make sure you open them all before the event. And I did not. I opened the top three because I think I had five boxes. I opened the top three, they were all fine, everything was great. I get to the book fair and I'm down to my last box of books and we open it. And it's not my book, it was Sophocles.

Speaker 1: 19:04

It was a bunch of texts, and so if you want to read some philosophy, I have a lot of Sophocles books at my house. Oh my gosh, they didn't even want them back. Oh yeah, that was the other thing. It was too late by the time. I tried to tell them and return them, so, but it was really annoying because I was very low on books at the book fair and then I opened this. What I thought was another big box of like 25 books. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2: 19:33

Well, now we know what everyone's getting for Christmas?

Speaker 1: 19:36

Yeah, exactly, brush up on your esophagy. Oh my gosh, that's funny. It's funny, but also not in that moment, right? Yes?

Speaker 1: 19:44

I always open all the boxes. Yeah, I remember you saying about the book fair, at least the first time that you met a lot of readers, which was cool for many reasons, but also because you got to see some of the other books they were carrying and figure out who your demographic was and, more importantly, was not Right. Do you remember that? Yes, right, do you remember that? Yes, yeah, totally. So, I definitely. I definitely noticed the type of people that would actually purchase the book and then the people that would come over and sort of look at it, mill about and then leave. And so when, once you know who your demographic is, that's where you spend your time and energy and you know it saves on energy. When you're trying to do something that already is difficult, which is sales and I bet, like I'm imagining being you if I'm writing my newsletter someday, it's easier to picture, like, who I'm writing towards, even if it's a group of, like you know, say, women in 35, whatever than everybody.

Speaker 2: 20:43

So I think that's very good.

Speaker 1: 20:44

But okay so Book Fair. I think if we were to say, like, top four takeaways so far, it's that things are going to happen, so plan in white space to allow them to happen. Netgalley was great for you, bookbub was great for you, and then you did the Book Fair, which was also a win. And then did you? You said you had some stats to share. Okay, so stats. I didn't compile like the exact stats, but I have an idea. It's so funny. So Amazon gives you pretty clean, obvious stats. So I know my, my Amazon stats pretty well. But Ingram is a lot more. It's very slow and then they just don't have an easy interface to find out exactly how many books you sold. But if you were to think about Jennifer from February 2023, what?

Speaker 1: 21:34

would it number, like what would your goal have been or what would you have been happy with? Okay, I think my goal is like way higher, okay, yes, but that's just because I'm very ambitious and I think I will hit my goal at some point, but not in the first year. So it's been a year, a year and a half, right, more than that, yeah, a year and a half, and I think I've sold between 5,000 and 6,000 copies. So my goal was 10,000. So I definitely wanted to sell more than that the five to six. But it is definitely a lot when you look at trends and when you look up statistics on how many books the average writer sells.

Speaker 2: 22:22

And also.

Speaker 1: 22:23

I also want to be clear that I had no platform when I started. I think I had like 100 friends on Instagram because I kind of eschewed social media about 10 years ago and I'm not on Facebook. I'm actually banned from Facebook which is another side funny story for a not scandalous reason, but a very boring reason, but, um, a very boring reason, actually a very boring reason, but I I'm not on Facebook but I am on Instagram and I do have a TikTok.

Speaker 1: 22:52

I'm not as active on TikTok. I mean I love it. I love, yeah, reading through book talk, but as far as my activity on it, it's just. It's just an extra thing that I haven't had time with the writing of books, which just like okay. So there's people that are listening to this going holy cow, you sold 5,000 to 6,000 copies of your debut novel. Yes, we heard that you did all these things. And also one thing you didn't talk about, which we can go back to, is influencer boxes and things like that. I know that may or may not have moved the needle too far in terms of sales, but maybe it did, we don't know. But 5,000 to 6,000 in a year and a half, considering all the other things you've been doing.

Speaker 1: 23:34

We're going to talk about your new book next and, like you said, the average number of books that a debut or any author really would sell is like what? 250 to 500, maybe Right, yeah, yeah, like that's pretty amazing, jennifer. Yeah, it feels, I mean, it feels great, like I'm really proud of it and happy about it. A lot of it happened during the sales. Like a big chunk of my sales were during the BookBub and the 99 cent sales. So there's that. I just want to be open about that. But yeah, I'm pretty happy about it and I also think that there are possibilities of it becoming greater. I do have a couple of. I have been having some meetings about Girl in the Zoo being in TV or film, which is exciting. The book itself may possibly be on a TV show I can't say which one or when, but that, so those things could also help with the, with the numbers. But yeah, I'm pretty happy with it and trying to take what I've learned into this next book, yeah, and so we'll get there in a second. But just, I feel like we have to almost have like a moment of silence for how wonderful you did, because I know you're also one of the people that you're like me. You don't tend to celebrate your success enough. So I like just very good job on all this, jennifer, and that's amazing, like so many people listening are like I hope I sell five to 6,000 books, you know. So I know you're proud and I know you feel it. But very great job on that. And what was I gonna say oh, I was gonna ask you.

Speaker 1: 25:11

So it's been a year and a half. You had finished your book, even like well before that. Have you, like, gone back and looked at any of it? Or how do you feel about the book you wrote now that it's been so much longer? Oh, okay, so I I am recording the audio book, and very slowly. So I started, so I did go back. I've recorded just the first chapter, so a lot to get done. But going back, oh, my goodness, I have. I would completely rewrite the whole thing now, which is so funny because you got it to a point where you were like I'm proud of this. It evolves so much from the very first iteration of it. People are reading it and they like it. Listeners can go look at the reviews and you still have that feeling of like I could have made it more perfect. I could have made it something slightly different.

Speaker 1: 26:05

So I could have definitely made it better, but for what it is and where it is, I am proud of it. I'm happy about it. But yeah, it's so funny because you know you grow as a writer. That's just how it goes.

Speaker 2: 26:20

And.

Speaker 1: 26:20

I am. I'm glad that I have it, though, because now it's like pushes you forward to yes and you're. I think you're a really good example for people who are afraid to put their book out in the world because it's not a thousand percent perfect, like you know at one point you were the most proud of your book and you probably knew there were like a percentage of things you would change.

Speaker 1: 26:42

The most proud of your book and you probably knew there were like a percentage of things you would change, and now, in hindsight, the percentage is higher, but you still put it out. It was scary, it was fun, it was exciting. It has now sold back to 6,000 copies, which is amazing, and gotten good reviews. So I think it's a good example for people that are like I'm just going to wait another year or two years until it's perfect. I don't think that's the best way to go. What do you think perfect? I don't think that's the best way to go. What do you think?

Speaker 1: 27:07

Yeah, I'm all about putting out as much of your work. Just, this wasn't how I used to do things. Yeah, but now, yes, I'm just going to write. I have so many ideas, I have so many starts of books, I have so many projects, and it's kind of like I'm just going to put them all out there because for some, I mean I want it to be of a certain quality. I didn't just like scribble something on a piece of paper and throw it out there. This was like, for sure, two years of work. It was not. You know, I don't want to take, I don't want to tell someone like, if they just wrote, like some scrappy rough draft, put that to publish, publish that. But I will say that, yes, I could have gone over especially the first chapter. I feel like I had that first chapter thing where you'd rewrite it thousands of times.

Speaker 2: 27:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:57

Yeah, and it wasn't really changing all that much. So, yeah, get it out there, put your work out there, because, even if it's not quite your, it's like the Ira Glass quote that I always. I'm always telling people about the Ira Glass quote. But your taste is going to be higher than your work at first and, like, I guess I'm just always reaching to make my work match my taste, yeah, which I love, and I think that's what makes you so special and part of why I wanted to have you on the podcast again, because you're a good example of what's possible if people kind of just shed those fears a little bit, you know. Yeah, so I appreciate you, jennifer, but I want to do a hard pivot on our Ross Geller.

Speaker 1: 28:43

And I want to talk about your new book and I kind of want to segue into that with your podcast. So at the same time that the Girl in the Zoo was kind of happening and you were marketing that, given that you're very ambitious you also wrote and recorded and published a podcast that's called the Strange Chronicles Do you want to talk about that a little, jennifer.

Speaker 1: 29:05

Okay, so the Strange Chronicles is basically my ode to the X-Files and kind of paranormal storytelling. I would say the first season of the Strange Chronicles was kind of like a workshop. I was writing the episodes really quickly. We're doing everything really quickly under a tight schedule because of the book coming out. I wanted to have it finished before the book came out and also it was culminating into a Christmas episode, so we had to release that by Christmas and so the podcast is like 10 minute episodes, each of them an individual mystery, and then there's kind of an arching overall mystery of the characters. It's a female detective. Detective Gray Cooper is who the story is based on, and her partner, joe Nebraska, and so the podcast was a really fun learning experience writing exercise, a million things.

Speaker 1: 30:04

I love podcasts and I loved the experience of recording the podcast. So my next book is basically the origin story of Gray Cooper, how she Becomes a Detective, and I have a series planned and that series is going to lead up to the podcast and then we'll see. We'll see if you know, if readers want more or like it. Then maybe we'll go beyond the podcast. I also have plans for a season two of the Strength Chronicles podcast.

Speaker 1: 30:41

So, yeah, this would be this first book and it's also a novella series, so it's shorter books. I love that. And so I kind of want to take you back in time to when you were doing the podcast, so you had just written and basically were publishing the Girl in the Zoo. So you learned a lot through that process. Then I feel like there was a whole learning that happened trying to write these short episodes and, you know, making sure that there was all the key elements to make an arc of change and a closed mystery and things like that. And then you kind of took that learning and not only learning about the craft but learning about the characters in the world into the books and we I remember there was a point in time where we were like mapping out the series in very, you know, generalized version of the series and then all the way back into book one.

Speaker 1: 31:28

So it's been a journey, yeah, but like what? Tell me, like what, if you can remember going from the Girl in the Zoo to the Strange Chronicles podcast, what were like? Were there any hard parts, or like any learnings that you could summarize from that? Yeah, so many hard parts. Well, the first one, I would say, is a change of genre, even though it's a slight like.

Speaker 1: 31:51

It's still in, like you know, paranormal, sci-fi kind of vibes. But it was a mystery and I needed to know how to write a mystery. So I was doing all this research. I still don't know that I'm like great at it yet. I'm still working it out. I'm still figuring out how to write a proper mystery.

Speaker 1: 32:08

But also practice with every episode, though every episode and you know and I had to, you know, have the mystery and then solve it and I had to do it so fast, but it was great. I mean, constraints can be really helpful, structure can be really helpful, especially for me, but learning how that works was definitely interesting. I also found that the relationships and the characters are always my favorite part and while working on the podcast, I feel like that, really informed. When I finally got to the book, I feel like I know these characters so well, compared to Girl in the Zoo, where I was discovering the characters as I went and I didn't have as much time with them. So I feel really like I feel like a deeper character arc is happening with the Strange Chronicles characters. So that's been really interesting and, like you said, the podcast is kind of in the future to where the novellas are right. So, yes, the novella.

Speaker 1: 33:13

That was maybe a hiccup. Well, I think like let's go and write before what, before the podcast. But then it's like you have to remember all of the dynamics that are happening in the podcast and I'm only writing to you know where the podcast starts, yeah. So that constraint was very hard, you know. Yeah, it was hard but in a way also kind of good for the novellas, because we knew here's where we need to get to and that's it. We just need to get to here in this series. But then it was like, yeah, how do we keep in mind all this? And also there were relationships, like you said, in the podcast. So how do we develop them slow enough over the novellas to meet that and also make them interesting?

Speaker 1: 33:54

So that's why, at one point, we had to really stop and be like what are you actually doing, jennifer, and how do we want to map this out?

Speaker 2: 34:01

Because I still don't know if I know what I'm doing.

Speaker 1: 34:04

Yeah, well, I remember you were getting stalled because you're like I just don't know, Like I don't know how this is all going to unfold and it's it's hampering my work. So we did a pause. But yeah, so that's really cool, Going from like novella length, which your story is over. What did you ever make it? Over 80,000 words in the Girl in the Zoo.

Speaker 1: 34:24

Yeah, 78,000 maybe. So to round up, we'll say going from an 80,000 word novel to very short episodes that are like 10, 15 minutes long. Oh, yes, going back up to novella length book yeah, so talk a little bit about the Strange Chronicles novella slash, book number one. Okay so, book number one is the first in the series I'm planning five and it's the origin story for Detective Greg Cooper. I like to call it cozy paranormal because there's a mystery, just like the podcast. There's going to be an individual mystery each novella and then a bigger arching mystery with the main characters. This one has a slow burn romance side plot and then some ghosts and aliens thrown in. Yeah, and I think you're right that it is cozy because it's. You know there are dangers, but it's not like life and death and it's not super scary, right? No, yeah, I think it's perfect for Halloween spooky time Also, just cozy fall, it's kind of like a celebration of all those vibes in a way.

Speaker 1: 35:34

Yes, yeah, so, okay, and so then now I just kind of want to take you through the process of that. So you were past the podcast, you got to you're working on novella. I know that you wrote that in way less time, not just because it was a novella compared to a novel, but also because you had some different craft tools than writing the Girl in the Zoo. So, and one of the big things you learned I'm going to paraphrase, correct me if I'm wrong, but in the Girl in the Zoo, was like how important it is to know who your antagonist is. Yes, so, and I remember we were like you're never going to not have a well flushed out antagonist again, because that was painful in the girl in the zoo, uh huh. So, going into this book, I think in the series you did a lot of work on the antagonist, would we say. That made the process a lot easier. Yes, I love my antagonist and well, I love to hate my antagonist, I guess. Antagonist, and well, I love to hate my antagonist, I guess. And it really makes things I don't know. It gives you a more clarity having you know the goals of your heroine and the goals of your villain, kind of clashing. So, yeah, I think that that definitely helped with this. I drafted this novella in a summer and I drafted the Girl in the Zoo and I'm talking first rough, scrappy one in a year. So definitely cut down on time, yeah, and not just because it's a novella, like I said. So a lot of listeners will be like, but it's like half the word count, yes, but also, jennifer has tools and a different process now, which I think is like a. It's one of the cool parts of just when you keep going, you're going to gather these tools and develop your process and things like that. So, yeah, I was able to like not go down certain roads that took up time but didn't really help me and then go straight to the things that worked.

Speaker 1: 37:32

Yeah, and the other thing that, if we go back to Girl in the Zoo, you had like blank page issues. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, and you didn't really have those with the Strange Chronicles. You know, you're right. I mean, I still have a crippling fear of the blank page and it's not my favorite to start something, but I, yeah, I didn't. I was able to kind of clip right through that and I think a lot of it.

Speaker 1: 37:58

And I still have that urge to stop. Read what I've written, fix it, make it better. I have that urge but I don't do it anymore because now I realize that I'm not going to probably use half of that stuff anyway, so why am I going to waste my time perfecting it? Yeah, and until you get to the end, it's hard to even make informed decisions about what to change your ad. So I think watching you from the outside that was one of the biggest things too is like you were so hesitant to even put something down and then, now that you've gone through it, it's like well, it doesn't matter, it's the first draft. So I think, for listeners, if you're relating to Jennifer, you know take it from someone who's literally gone through this process that she was able to overcome it by just moving forward and publishing one book, and, you know, putting one foot in front of the other and doing it again. Yes, just keep going, just keep going. Every time you stop and want to fix it or you think it's boring or it's not good enough, just keep writing, just keep writing. Get to the end. Like Jennifer said, she still has the urge, but she knows now, it's part of the process just to let it be and come back around, so I think that's very cool.

Speaker 1: 39:07

Okay, so the day this episode airs, your book will have been out in the world for about a week. Are there any specific marketing plans or any things that you're excited about? Are you doing similar things to the Girl in the Zoo or anything new? Tell me all about that. I honestly, the marketing is always very overwhelming to me, even though I did a lot of things with my first book. I did so much research and then I tried to check everything off my list. This time I'm really sticking to the things that worked for me last time and not doing some of the things that didn't work out for me. So, for example, like I'll definitely still do NetGalley, I'll definitely submit for some reviews. I will. What else will I do? Are you going to do influencer boxes again? I don't know if I'm going to do that this time.

Speaker 1: 39:59

To be honest, yeah, I feel like that was a lot of work and a lot of money and I don't know. I mean, I did have some success with it, so I can't say it was for not. However, it's a whole different genre. It's exactly what you said too, like it was a lot of effort to not be able to be sure what the return was. So I could totally see you either not doing it or kind of trimming it down and just doing like what's going to have the most impact, because we didn't really talk about this, but you kind of you went fog wild in a good way, like you were making custom book corners, right Bookmark corners. Oh I, you had so many like listeners.

Speaker 1: 40:38

I'll try to link to. I'll try to link to Jennifer's Instagram post where you showed it, cause I think you did show it somewhere, right, jennifer? Yes, yeah, I'll link to it in the show notes so you can check out what she did. But it was really cool. She put together these really fun boxes and I remember it took a lot of your time and energy, which, yeah, is is fine if it works out, you know.

Speaker 1: 40:56

But yeah, well, I think what I would do this time, because the strange chronicles is a series, I think maybe I will wait until the series is complete, at least the first chunk of the series. So I'm planning for five books, five novellas, so when, once I'm finished with them, maybe I will do something special for the complete series. Yeah, and then I do have the option if it is very successful and people really like these characters and want them to continue on that, I could start after the podcast. You know books starting then. So that's kind of my loose plan at this point. Yeah, that's fun and I love that you're like I'm going to do the things that really made a difference. You have a good track record there. You kind of know what to expect. So I think that's really fun. And then what's really cool too is like so at this time, whoever is listening can go check out her podcast about the Strange Chronicles, about Gray Cooper. You can also grab the book. So we will link to all that in the show notes.

Speaker 1: 41:56

But any anything else, jennifer, that you were like either that you wanted to have told yourself, if we go back to, like, the day you published the Girl in the Zoo, or anyone who's an aspiring writer, like any last words of wisdom Okay, so for aspiring writers, I just get to the end I know this is not unique advice, but just get to the end of your first draft and then you'll have something to work with.

Speaker 1: 42:24

So, right to the end, and then for what I would have told myself I I guess I would tell myself it'll all be okay, it'll all work out fine, because I got caught up on so many little details and I had such emotional reactions to every little moment and now I can can see that all of that, all of the hiccups, all of the good things, that big mixture of book publishing, that you need all of it in order to move forward, and I'm grateful for all of it.

Speaker 1: 43:00

I'm grateful for all the mistakes and I'm grateful for all the wins, and it's just all kind of mixed together in a book soup. Yeah, a book soup. So not only are you an author, but you're a chef. Yes, I love it and I think it's it. You know, from my outside perspective, there were so many times where, like you were emotional because you cared and things went wrong and it felt like the end of the world. And you know, from the outsider's perspective, what I think is cool is you didn't give up, you didn't let those things derail you, you felt the emotions and then you were like, okay, but tomorrow I'm doing this because I'm going according to plan.

Speaker 2: 43:37

So I just think that's that's so cool.

Speaker 1: 43:39

It's such an inspiration and I'm very excited to see how the world likes Greg Cooper and Joe Nebraska. Thank you, I'm so excited about it. I'm so excited to share this whole new and it's a whole new voice. I feel like a whole different genre, but still, you know my same interests and, yeah, I'm really excited to share it with everyone.

Speaker 2: 44:01

Yeah, so, like I said, thank you.

Speaker 1: 44:01

Savannah, thank you for all of your help and your expertise and you're and you're just the best at catching all of the things and seeing every writer for their strengths and weaknesses, and I'm so grateful to you. You're going to make me blush and cry over here, but you're welcome and thank you for being awesome and, like I said, we will link to all the stuff so everyone can go find Jennifer in the show notes and maybe give her a virtual high five for being vulnerable on today's episode and sharing numbers and sharing what worked and what didn't work and all that, and to check out her new book, the Strange Chronicles. What's the full title, jennifer? It's Start. Somewhere is the name of this book and it's the Strange Chronicles book one. And most of my social media is on Instagram at Jennifer Lee Lauer. Perfect, we will link up to that in the show notes and thank you again, jennifer, for being here.

Speaker 1: 44:57

It was so fun. I hope that someday we'll get to have you back to not only talk about like a future book in the series, but maybe one of these TV things you've been hinting at. So we'll meet. Yeah, I hope so. It was my pleasure. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 45:11

So that's it for today's episode. As always, thank you so much for tuning in and for showing your support. If you want to check out any of the links I mentioned in this episode, you can find them in the show notes listed in the description of each episode inside your podcast player or at savannahgilbocom forward slash podcast. If you're an Apple user, I'd really appreciate it if you took a few seconds to leave a rating and a review. Your ratings and reviews tell Apple that this is a podcast that's worth listening to and, in turn, your reviews will help this podcast get in front of more fiction writers just like you. And while you're there, go ahead and hit that follow button, because there's going to be another brand new episode next week, full of actionable tips, tools and strategies to help you become a better writer. So I'll see you next week and until then, happy writing.