Speaker 1: 0:40

One thing I see writers deal with a lot is they think that things end like once the launch week is over and it's like no, no, you're always gonna need to be talking about your book and marketing your book. So don't put so much pressure on yourself to do everything right in that window, because life goes on afterwards and you're gonna need to do it afterwards. Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy podcast. My name is Savannah Gilbo and I'm here to help you write a story that works. I want to prove to you that writing a novel doesn't have to be overwhelming, so each week, I'll bring you a brand new episode with simple, actionable and step-by-step strategies that you can implement in your writing right away. So, whether you're brand new to writing or more of a seasoned author looking to improve your craft, this podcast is for you. So pick up a pen and let's get started.

Speaker 1: 1:29

In today's episode, I have what I think is something really fun to share with you. I'm taking you behind the scenes of one writer's journey to share how she went from an agented author to ditching that agent and self-publishing her debut novel, into the Fire, which comes out the day this episode airs October 22nd 2024. You might recognize her name from a previous episode of this podcast. Her name is Stephanie Medrick, and back in 2022, we recorded an episode together that covered the ins and outs of writing her first draft, what it was like to edit that draft and how she eventually landed an agent who took her book out on submission, and things like that. So that's episode number 71, and I will link to that in the show notes if you want to go check out the beginning of Stephanie's journey before listening to this episode. That's more of a where is she now type of episode, so go check out the show notes for that. Now I've already kind of spoiled what this episode is going to be about, but essentially we're picking up from where we left off in episode number 71, and you'll get to hear all about what Stephanie's been up to since landing her agent, including why she parted ways with that agent and made the decision to self-publish her debut. It's a really interesting story and I'm seeing more and more authors go in this direction, which is also really interesting. You'll get to hear Stephanie talk about how she's working with a PR company to help with the marketing, so finding and interacting with influencers, creating those PR boxes, finding and communicating with ARC readers and things like that. If you're planning to self-publish your own novel someday, you will not want to miss that part of the episode. Stephanie shares a really cool resource she's been using for all of that and I'm kind of obsessed. Now, before we get into the conversation, I just want to read you the back cover copy of Stephanie's novel so that you have some context of what we're talking about. Okay, so this is what's on the back cover of her debut novel called Into the Fire.

Speaker 1: 3:20

It says 19-year-old Melanie Snow is desperate to untangle what happened the night her parents died. Their employer, the most powerful weapons manufacturer in the country, swears the deaths were a tragic workplace accident, but details in the police report don't add up Worse. The authorities refuse to answer her questions. Something bigger is going on, and Mel won't stop until she uncovers the truth.

Speaker 1: 3:43

Tommy Williams has belonged to the resistance ever since the night he saw Mel's parents murdered alongside his own. He knows who's responsible a homegrown extremist group called the Organization. The memories eat him alive, but it's too late to act. There's nothing he can do to make up for failing to save their lives, not until he learns that Mel is centered in the Organization's crosshairs. Tommy defies orders and risks his life to warn her, but Mel refuses to run. Instead, she pledges herself to the resistance to earn information and to take down the people responsible for her parents' deaths. But the group does not trust her, and it's not long before Mel finds herself caught in a web of secrets and lies. As the target on her back grows, so too do her feelings for Tommy, and one thing soon becomes clear If Mel can't stand against the organization alone, innocent blood will spill, including Tommy's.

Speaker 1: 4:35

Okay, so that's what the story is about. Now I'm not going to make you wait any longer to dive into all the details, so let's get right into my conversation with Stephanie Medrick to hear how she went from being an agented author to ditching that agent and self-publishing her fabulous debut called Into the Fire. Hi, stephanie, welcome back to the Fiction Writing Made Easy podcast. I'm so excited to have you back on the show. Hi, I'm so excited to be here again. Yeah, and this is going to be so cool. This is the first ever episode I've done. That's like let's see where this writer is now. So we initially talked to you. You had finished your draft, you had been queering people, you had gotten an agent and now we're fast forwarding to. Is it like a year later, a year and a half later?

Speaker 2: 5:21

I think it's two years.

Speaker 1: 5:23

Or maybe a year, two years I think it's two years or maybe a year two years later, yeah, so, like somewhere in that realm of one one and a half, two years later, yeah, so what we're going to do is kind of give everyone an update of so many things that have happened since the last podcast episode with you, so to kind of like if we were to, I mean I guess we just recapped. But if what I'm going to do, instead of recapping, I'm going to post a link to that episode in the show notes so that people can go back and kind of hear the start of your journey and, if they want, they can catch up on where you're at now, and I guess let's just spoil it right. So you're about to publish your first, your debut novel. Yes, I'm so excited, yeah, and so tell everybody what that's called and when it comes out.

Speaker 2: 6:05

Yes, so it's called Into the Fire and the published date is October 22nd.

Speaker 1: 6:10

All right. So October 22nd, which is the day this episode goes live, which is so exciting. So congratulations, stephanie, and we will put links to where everyone can find your book and things like that in the show notes. But would you mind giving listeners just a very quick overview of like, who you are, what kind of stories you write and things like that.

Speaker 2: 6:27

Sure, yeah. So my name is Stephanie Medrick. I am mostly a romanticist reader. I also read like fantasy, action adventure, mostly new adult, but also adult and YA, so a little bit of everything in that area. But I wrote a romantic suspense story. So I don't know, moving forward, if I'm going to continue to write romantic suspense after this series or if I'm going to move more into like a romantic-y type story next. I have ideas for both, but I'll probably bounce between those genres. But all of my stories will have romance, action adventure, thrills, all that fun stuff, excitement.

Speaker 1: 7:05

Yeah, so the core of the stories, I feel like, will always be the same, but you may or may not have magic and certain theories. Exactly, yes, exactly, yep, yeah, so and so, speaking of that, I'm kind of going to jump ahead to. One of the issues that you've had along the way since we last spoke to you is like, what genre is this story and where does it fit in the market and things?

Speaker 2: 7:23

like that, right? Yes, and that's actually one of the reasons I wanted to go the traditional route to begin with which another spoiler alert, I guess, would be that I'm very excited that I ended up going the indie publishing route, but anyway, one of the things I was hoping they'd help me with is figuring out where exactly to place this book in the marketplace. Yeah, because it's kind of at the intersection of a few different genres, which could be really good or might make it more difficult to find my readers.

Speaker 1: 7:52

Yeah, and it's really interesting too because, like Stephanie said, she's a big Romanticist reader, I'm a big Romanticist reader and we both are obsessed with this story and it has a lot of the ingredients that the Romanticist stories we love have, but of course, there's no magic, so it's it's kind of like what is romanticist without the magic, right, and that's exactly what I did on romantic suspense, which I think it's going to be really fun to see, like, yes, that makes sense for your story, but also, how does it work in the market? And we're going to see that very shortly, so very exciting. Ok, so you did spoil. The big news is that you had an agent you were going to traditionally publish and then we kind of sped up the timeline and now you're self publishing your books out today. So let's catch people up on how that happened.

Speaker 2: 8:35

Yeah, so it was definitely a weird journey. I don't know how many people feel like everyone's journey is weird in a different way, right Like there's no just normal publishing journey. But basically what happened was that my agent that I signed with she didn't end up being the best fit for either myself or my story. My goals and also, just like experience wise, the types of other authors and stories she represented and the types of contacts in the industry that she had were a lot more like like true crime, thriller, mystery type stories and contacts where I wanted my story to be a lot more of like that romance and that action adventure. I also wanted it to be new adult with some steam and some spice, and she didn't really like that. She wanted me to edit that stuff out. So all of that stuff came together in a way that just made me realize I wanted control over my story and where it was going to go in the audience I was trying to find.

Speaker 1: 9:35

So yeah, I think I think that's really interesting and part of the reason we wanted to record this episode today is because I think, like I see a behind the scenes look into a lot of writers lives and this tends to happen a lot. So it's almost like we're, as writers, we get so excited that an agent wants to represent us and we're like, yes, please send me the document. And then, you know, we might have little gut feelings or red flags that pop up, but we kind of ignore them because we want that end result. So bad Right.

Speaker 2: 10:07

Yeah, In my case she was the first agent I ever queried and I did query 13 agents and I got another full request from actually like a top agent, which was really exciting, and another partial request. So those stats were pretty decent, yeah. But when I got the offer and the others stepped aside, I was too nervous that if I didn't take it I did already have that gut feeling. She was brand new in the industry. She came from like a boutique agency so she said she had a mentor agent but she wasn't with like a big, established agency. So like those all things, those things all made me a little nervous. They can work in your favor or not and I just wish that I had given myself a little more of a chance to see what might have happened elsewhere, just because I already knew, like I could tell in my gut that maybe she wasn't the best fit. But I was nervous if I didn't sign with her. Like what if no one else offered?

Speaker 1: 10:55

Yeah, and I think a lot of writers make decisions like that, which is why it's so important to talk about this, right? So there were positive things, like we're not saying anything bad about this particular agent. There were positive things that you know Stephanie was excited about.

Speaker 2: 11:09

There were also, like she said, red flags and a gut feeling she had, but she ignored them because she was so excited, and we all do that, of course no judgment, but and I definitely want to be clear that my agent always had good intentions yeah, she wasn't the right agent for me, but that doesn't mean that she wouldn't be the right agent for you or for the clients she currently has.

Speaker 1: 11:26

So I definitely don't mean to throw shade or anything like that it was just that my experience was not what I was looking for, yes, and I think it boils down to it just wasn't a good fit, which, you know, ideally, an agent and a writer, they want that perfect fit. And so, you know, I think, had you not realized that, maybe she would have realized it too because, like you said, she represented different categories and things like that. So, you know, I think the if it boils down to something, it's that writers are allowed to listen to their guts, they're allowed to say you know what I don't know about this, I'm going to see what else is out there. And that also, like if I were to speak to past Stephanie, it's like we don't have to. And that also like if I were to speak to past Stephanie, it's like we don't have to. You know, take the first offer, because you deserve to have a chance to see other offers too. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 12:11

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:13

So you know a lesson learned, but it was really exciting, too, going through all that, and you had experiences that you never would have had if you didn't sign with her.

Speaker 2: 12:20

So you know, and I, have to say too, like I did go through an edit with her and which made the story better, but we didn't change that much. Where I really got a lot of information that made my story way way better was when we went out on submission, and that was another thing too. Like there was. There were a few common threads in the feedback we got from editors on submission that she didn't necessarily agree with me, like on the changes that needed to happen at that point, so that was another thing.

Speaker 2: 12:49

That was kind of like a sign that maybe it was better to part ways. I wanted to make the story into one thing, she wanted to make it into something else, but if I had never signed with her and if I had never gone on submission then I never would have gotten the feedback I got. That helped me make the story like light years better, so it was all a really good thing in the end.

Speaker 1: 13:10

Yeah, really good experience and I think it's really nice to that, like knowing you and knowing a behind the scenes look at your self publishing journey. You're very excited about doing this and, like I said, your books out in the world today and who knows what would have happened if you had been out in submission for another year or two or whatever right, yeah, it would have taken forever.

Speaker 2: 13:27

And then if I got a deal, then it's what like one or two years at least until it's on the shelves with a publisher. So I'm definitely not someone who wants to wait that long, especially in between every book. There's no guarantee of another book deal either. So like what if then I had to start back over at square one? Right, this is just a lot more in my control. It's a lot more fast paced, a lot more exciting for me, for my personality. So it ended up being all good.

Speaker 1: 13:54

Yeah, and I think that's important for writers who are listening to think about is, like you know, yes, a traditional publishing deal and having an agent can feel really glamorous, it can feel really cool and for some people, that is going to be a great option. But for other people, like you know, even for me, I lean more towards self-publishing, because I want that creative control, I want to have my hands in everything, and so does Stephanie and, yeah, she's had so much fun. It's been a lot of work for her and we'll talk about that. But you know it's it's very cool for me to be on the other side and to hear Stephanie back then when she was out in submission and doing things like that. Just, I don't want to say like it was more, like your voice is different, like you have so much more excitement in your voice these days than you did back then. So, yeah, I think that's all a great sign that you're on the right path.

Speaker 2: 14:39

Yeah, back then I just felt like I was compromising so much of like what I wanted just to get this traditional deal. So that's why, like the excitement was lacking, I was almost. I wasn't intentionally faking it or anything, but I was almost like faking it because I wanted to feel excited, but I just felt like in my gut that it wasn't what I wanted. But I couldn't quite identify mentally or consciously that that's what I was feeling. So it's very weird time.

Speaker 1: 15:07

Well, and like rightly so. Right, because it's so exciting to have people looking at your story and being interested in things like that. And then, at the same time, you're like what does this gut feeling mean? Is it real, or am I just nervous, or you know?

Speaker 2: 15:19

Yeah, exactly yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:21

Yeah. So I don't know. I think that's it's a very, very interesting experience that you've been through and I love that you're willing to share it, because other writers are going to face the same thing, where they're maybe facing an agent who wants to represent them, and they have that gut feeling and, you know, hopefully they'll be like well, I heard Stephanie say that she should have listened to her gut feeling, so I'm going to do that.

Speaker 2: 15:41

Well, you know I'm going to interject because it was when I heard your podcast episode with what's her name Jamie Barron. Of course, I'm going to forget it now. Yes, jamie Barron, thank you. I heard your podcast episode with Jamie Barron and that day I sent the contract termination notice to my agent. So it makes a difference Just knowing that other people are in similar situations, when you kind of feel like in a silo or at least I did like I'm the only one experiencing this.

Speaker 1: 16:12

Yeah, yeah, and that episode I'll link to it in the show notes if listeners want to check that out. But Jamie said something very similar to what Stephanie experienced was there was not anything necessarily wrong with that agent or what that agent was doing. It just didn't feel like the right fit for where Jamie wanted to go. And you know, same with just what Stephanie said. It didn't feel like the right fit for the vision of the story and where you wanted to go professionally and things like that. So both episodes are very worthwhile to listen to, so we'll link to Jamie's in the show notes. But OK, so Stephanie, you parted ways with your agent and I remember that it was like scary to send the email, but after that you were so relieved, right, yes, I was so relieved, yeah, I was like I finally did what my heart knew for so long that I should have done.

Speaker 2: 16:56

Yes, and so then, what did you do next? What did I do next? Oh, my goodness, let me like put myself back there mentally. I did a self-publish, yeah, so not immediately. So first I sent the contract termination and then I felt like this really freeing sense that, hey, like now I have control, now I can go wherever I want to go. But before I decided whether I was going to try to query again or self-publish, I wanted to make the edits from that we got from like editors that I knew needed to happen. So I made edits, mainly to deepen the interiority, yep, and I went through like a whole bunch of drafts. So, like I, first I deepened the interiority and then I went through like three rounds of beta readers and then I think I sent it through you again too for a development, another developmental edit we wanted to look at interiority and I think I sent it through you again too for another developmental edit.

Speaker 1: 17:45

We wanted to look at interiority and, I think, the relationship between your main characters.

Speaker 2: 17:49

Yeah, I think we deepened the romance and I also aged it up again because I wanted to write a new adult story, but then I made it YA in order to fit into traditional publishing, yeah. So I aged it back up a little bit, made all those changes and then I went through three rounds of betas and a round of sensitivity readers Right Before I went to line and copy edits. So I think I decided to self-publish somewhere in like the middle of all those.

Speaker 1: 18:18

Yeah, Because I do remember there was a point where you're like well, maybe I'll start going down the self-publishing route and I'll also query and just see what happens. And you didn't end up querying again, right?

Speaker 2: 18:28

No, I kind of like started looking at agents and again I kind of had that feeling like I don't know, man, like do I really want to start all the way over? It's going to be years before I even maybe get to publish, and then again I lose that control. So when I was researching agents to maybe query again, that was when I kind of decided, like you know what I don't really want to do, this I want to do it on my own.

Speaker 1: 18:50

Yeah, and I think you were seeing other writers all self-publishing and having fun with it and you were I remember you like thinking and saying this could be kind of fun.

Speaker 2: 19:00

Yeah, I know Jennifer Lauer was definitely like an influence on my decision just by watching her journey and all the success she's had.

Speaker 1: 19:07

Yeah, yeah, and I think that's so fun, so okay, so you lot of like I don't know if I want to say younger writers, but people who are seeing the success of self-published authors. They're seeing the fun that can be had, they're seeing the creative control and they're like that is equally, if not more, appealing than the traditional route. So I think we're going to see like a much bigger shift than just one person going that way.

Speaker 2: 19:45

Oh yeah, I definitely see it like on social media, on bookstagram. There's so much support for indie authors now and I think that's only going to grow.

Speaker 1: 19:54

Yeah, I do too. Ok, so then you went through beta readers and sensitivity readers and then you said you got to a point where you were doing line editing and copy editing and I knew, like I know, going into it, you knew what to expect. But were there any surprises in that phase of the edits?

Speaker 2: 20:11

Not really. I was happy because my line editor said that the draft was pretty clean. So that's just nice to hear. Yeah, but there were definitely plenty of edits, but they were, you know, like line level edits. It wasn't like at that point I was changing anything at the story level anymore, right, but they were pretty easy to like go through, implement, decided, decide how I might want to reword things here and there, but pretty simple and straightforward, yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:35

Which is great, and approximately how long did that process take?

Speaker 2: 20:40

Uh, let's see. I had the manuscript back so I sent it to my copy editor and it was back within four weeks. Then I had a month in between to make those edits, which was the perfect amount of time. Maybe someone without a toddler would take faster than that, but it was the perfect amount of time for me. And then it was only like two and a half weeks that it was in proofreading before I got it back.

Speaker 1: 21:02

Okay, so like six weeks total for a copy edit and well, for them to do their part, and then you did your part. Six weeks total from a copy and a proofread. What about the line edit?

Speaker 2: 21:14

Oh, I guess I'm using line and copy edit interchangeably, but I guess technically it was a line edit. She's a line editor.

Speaker 1: 21:20

Okay, so you did the line edit in about well, she did it in about four weeks and then you took your month or whatever to go through the changes and then your copy edit slash. Proof read was about two weeks.

Speaker 2: 21:30

Yep, it was two and a half weeks that the proofreader had it and then it only took me like a day to implement the changes, because it was just like looking through and like, oh, maybe this needs I don't know a period or a capitalization, I just accept the change and it was done in I don't know two hours or something.

Speaker 1: 21:46

Yeah, that's nice. Okay, so I know I had to ask because I know people out there are like what should I budget for in terms of time? So we heard it straight from Stephanie some ballpark ranges you can use. And then at what point during all that did you start thinking about your cover? Let me think.

Speaker 2: 22:03

It was. I was still going through rounds of betas, but I know that cover designers can have really long wait lists. So it was last fall that I started researching cover designers, even though I knew that I wasn't going to be in like a place to actually publish for about another year or so. So it was pretty early. But I'm glad I did that, because she did have a waitlist the cover designer I picked. I got in with her in February, but then the design process itself and this is probably mostly my fault it just took a long time. I had an image in my mind of this type of feel I wanted the cover to have, but I did not know how to communicate with her about it. I didn't do the very best at giving her helpful feedback when she gave me, like what would you call it, draft?

Speaker 1: 22:55

Yeah, like options yeah options.

Speaker 2: 22:57

Yeah, so like she actually designed me an entire cover and then I was like, hey, so sorry, but like this isn't right, we need to start over. And she was so gracious and so wonderful about it, but looking back, I feel really bad. So if you're thinking about getting started with cover design soon, I might just do a little research on how to make it easy for your cover designer, cause I didn't do that, yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:22

Like. What did you give her? Was it like a mood board?

Speaker 2: 23:25

Did you give her examples of other covers or yeah, well, kind of, she had a form like an intake form that I filled out and I gave her the genre of the book and I gave her like comp covers that she could look at. But I didn't send her any pictures and I didn't give her that many comp covers. I was just kind of like I want it to, I want it to show that it's like romance but also action and like action forward. But I want to make sure the romance is prominent. But I didn't give her elements to include anything. And, yeah, she was so great.

Speaker 1: 23:56

But I think that's pretty normal too, Cause as writers it's not our natural language to speak in a design language. I think most cover designers know that, and that's why they have their intake forms, and you know they just do their best. But yeah, you're lucky that you found one that was so nice to work with and easy and produced a great cover so.

Speaker 2: 24:15

I love that. Oh, it's a gorgeous cover, yep.

Speaker 1: 24:17

Yeah, well, I'll have to post to something in the show notes one of your Instagram pictures where you're like revealing the cover so people can see. But OK, so then throughout that process, like this is the production phase, right, like you're getting your book ready to go out into the world and then there's a whole other thing happening at the same time which is like marketing plans and like influencer plans and things like that. So if we were to just stick on that track of production now you've gotten the line ads done, the copy, the proofreading, and you've got the cover in process Was there any big surprise or anything that like really held you up in terms of getting the book on Amazon or like you know, things like that.

Speaker 2: 24:57

Kind of and this is kind of going to echo the episode you did on publishing your book it's like there weren't any surprises really. It was a lot of work. That I knew was going to be a lot of work. There's a lot to keep in mind. It can be overwhelming at times, but the thing that keeps getting me is that every step of the process something has gone wrong. Yeah, and it's like the closer I get to my published date especially because I'm doing PR boxes for influencers and physical arcs, special edition arcs and stuff like that Like I need to get these books in my hands so I can ship them out by the end of the month.

Speaker 2: 25:33

But, every single time that something goes wrong it's a delay, yeah, and like now I'm getting close to like I thought I also thought I built in plenty of padding. I'm getting close to when I need to ship these boxes and I still don't have the books in my hands and I'm going through another round of like fixing stuff on the proofs and everything. So it's really just that building in enough time and just be ready for some stress, because I think it's probably unavoidable that things are going to go wrong.

Speaker 1: 26:02

Yeah, I think so too, and it's so funny because, like I will vouch that you did build in the padding because that I was keeping you updated on my book launch and I'm like, make sure you have enough padding because I'm suffering over here. So you built in padding and extra and you're still like coming up with delays, which I had, the same experience. So I was just waiting for those physical copies and I didn't actually get them until after my book was published. Like you know, I don't know what the right answer of how much time to build in, but it's more than you think you're going to need, and always pad on the back end. Like you know, start as early as you possibly can with all this stuff, because you're going to need the time.

Speaker 2: 26:38

Yeah, totally, and it takes them like Ingram and Amazon. It takes them unless you want to pay a ton of money for fast shipping. It takes them forever to send, like each copy of the proof or like if you need author copies. It just takes so long yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:52

And it's hard too, because they'll give you a window of like. This could take 12 to 48 hours, and most of the time for me, I was on the very long end of that spectrum. So it would be like 48 hours that I'm finally getting something. And so, yeah, I would just say, like really plan for almost like the worst case scenario and then give yourself a little padding because you will need it. So take it from us, who are like literally living this experience right now. Yeah, but okay. So then that kind of brings us up to like today in terms of where we're at production wise because your book is available today, in terms of where we're at production, wise because your book is available. So now let's back up and talk about marketing stuff, because this is really fun, also very stressful because, like you said, there's a lot of moving parts. So when, like if we start the timeline at like you breaking up with your agent from there, when did you start thinking about marketing stuff In?

Speaker 2: 27:41

one way immediately, but in other ways not until my book was in with, like, the line editor and the proofreader. And I say that because when I first broke up that's a fun way to say it, yeah. But I first broke up with my agent, I had to decide what I was going to do. And again with the genre and the age category I had to kind of think like who is my target reader, what direction do I want to go in and is it a viable direction? In the marketplace, traditional publishing is finally starting to catch up with the new adult trend a little bit, which makes me so happy because new adult is my very favorite age category to read and to write. But it wasn't really quite that way yet when I was making these decisions.

Speaker 2: 28:26

So I had to really decide like do I think it's viable to market a new adult and then especially a new adult romantic suspense? And back then I was also trying to decide like what do I call this? It's going to appeal to romantic fan, but only if they're OK with it being in like a version of the modern world with no magic, which is no longer romanticcy. Right, romantic suspense is a really good label for it. But my concern with that was a lot of the romantic suspense I've seen is more of like a true crime or a mystery feel Right, this doesn't really. I mean, there's some mystery and there's definitely some crime, but it doesn't feel like that. It feels like an action adventure, yeah it feels like romanticism with no magic, really.

Speaker 2: 29:09

Yeah, that's exactly what it feels like, and then or you could even say, like it almost feels like a dystopian romance, but it's not dystopian either. So it's like I was wrestling with all of this stuff when I was doing the initial rewrites, trying to figure out like, what do I play up, what do I play down? And then I really had to make decisions and start actually making moves on marketing when the manuscript was pretty much done, so that was earlier this year.

Speaker 1: 29:31

Yeah. So it's kind of like you had all the stuff you were dreaming about and thinking about and then, as you made decisions, you could crystallize it more. Yes and then. So tell me, like if we were to give listeners a very quick overview of what you're doing in terms of marketing. Tell me, like if we were just to give listeners a very quick overview of what you're doing in terms of marketing.

Speaker 2: 29:46

What are some of the highlights? Sure, so one really exciting thing I'm doing is I'm working with a PR company called NerdFam and they have like a really extensive reach. They also have a really extensive knowledge base. So they actually helped me realize that I am a romantic suspense, even if I have sort of a different kind of almost romantic feel. They were like stop saying romantic in your marketing, Like readers are going to be mad and they're totally right.

Speaker 1: 30:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:13

So their guidance in like the genre and everything was so helpful. But also they helped me put together a special edition arc, physical arc of my book and some PR packages which I can't wait to show everyone. They're going to be really fun.

Speaker 1: 30:28

Yeah, that sounds really cool and so obviously they're a service, so they cost money and I know that not everyone's going to be able to do that, but it's a really cool option for those listeners who can, because it takes a lot of that off your plate. So you're not the one going out and researching all the influencers. I'm sure you have to find some right and do some of it yourself. But yeah, we'll link to NerdFam in the show notes because they have a really cool service. So that's one big thing. The ARC readers you're getting signups for those currently at the time of recording this episode and then they're handling influencers and things like that for you. What else are you planning in terms of marketing?

Speaker 2: 31:04

Yeah, so I am pitching some podcasts and I'm excited that I'm going to be on two other ones.

Speaker 2: 31:10

So this one and then two other ones so far and we'll see if I get on any more. So that's like one leg of my strategy. The PR boxes are another and then social media. That's one of the other things I decided to hire out a little bit, get a little bit help with real and graphic creation, just because I was trying to do it myself and I don't have time. I have to either write or do all this stuff for marketing. I don't have time to do both, or the mental bandwidth, honestly, so I hired that out. I got marketing reports from a couple of people and that has made posting on social media on like a regular basis so much easier for me because I have all the content in a library. I can just pick what I want to post add a hashtag.

Speaker 2: 32:00

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, social media. And then I want to do some like local press I guess you would call it yeah, like some signings in local bookstores and stuff like that. But I haven't started looking into that yet, so that's next on my list.

Speaker 1: 32:17

Yeah, and that's something too like something that I learned through my book launch is there's things that are going to fall off the plate because there's just not enough time or energy or whatever. I'm just thinking of listeners who are like this sounds like a lot. Let's say that Stephanie realizes. You know what I can't do the local signings during my book launch week. It's still totally fine to do it two months later. It's all still good momentum. It's good stuff to talk through about on social media and with other people.

Speaker 1: 32:43

So yeah that's a super good point. I feel like one thing I learned for myself and one thing I see writers deal with a lot is they think that things end like once the launch week is over and it's like no, no, you're always going to need to be talking about your book and marketing your book. So, kind of like I want to say this to Stephanie, but also to listeners is don't put so much pressure on yourself to do everything right in that window, because life goes on afterwards and you're going to need to do it afterwards too, and you're going to need to do it afterwards too.

Speaker 2: 33:14

Yeah, that actually makes me feel a little better because, yeah, I feel like the release date right now, at the time of recording, is closing in so fast and I still have so much to do.

Speaker 1: 33:20

Yeah, and you have to prioritize, right, because, like, the production of the actual book is a big deal and you've paid this PR firm to help you get your book out and if you don't deliver on what they need from you, that's a big deal, right? So some people are going to fall to the wayside, especially as these delays kind of keep stacking up with Amazon or whatever. So, yeah, I think that's all really fun. And then are you doing anything to build your email list or are you offering any kind of freebie at this point?

Speaker 2: 33:45

Oh, yeah, so no, and that's one thing that's been on my list forever. I need to make a reader magnet.

Speaker 1: 33:51

And I don't really know what to make.

Speaker 2: 33:53

I have a prequel novella in mind, but that would mean I have to actually write a whole novella. Which I don't have time to do right now. So, I was thinking of putting up like the first three chapters or something like that, but I haven't sat down to do it yet. I do have some pre-order bonuses that I'm going to offer, which I haven't announced yet, and I have a few giveaways planned for October release month. So I have some stuff like that, but nothing that directly builds my newsletter list.

Speaker 1: 34:19

Yeah. So if I were going to put on my code chat for a second, I would say like that needs to be a priority. So I love that you're like I could just put up my first three chapters. I think that's a great lead magnet.

Speaker 2: 34:30

So cool and that's already done, so it's already done.

Speaker 1: 34:33

You can do that. You can also change it too. So think about writers. Put a lot of pressure on like I have to get the thing perfect. Not really right, Like the reader magnet. If it's your first three chapters, that helps people decide if they want to buy your book, especially if you put it out early, you know. And then like, let's say, you're the published date has happened, because it's today when this airs, and then you can think about changing your reader magnet. So you know, maybe it's not as exciting to get the first three chapters anymore, or maybe it is, who knows, but let's say it's not. Then what could you do? You might have time to do something like writing a really key scene from a different point of view, you know, or you?

Speaker 1: 35:11

could do like a fun idea.

Speaker 1: 35:13

If you don't show the whole steamy scene. You could write the whole steamy scene and give that away, you know, okay, yeah, there's so many things you can do and I think actually changing it up sometimes is pretty fun. So it'll be really cool to see what you come up with. And just behind the scenes, I know we will brainstorm this more. Yes, okay, so that's like it's a lot of work, right, like self-publishing is a lot of work. You're doing it all yourself. Even you had to find the people that you're getting help from yourself, and you have to pay them with your money instead of your time. So it's self-publishing is no joke, but being on this side of it, would you have it any other way now?

Speaker 2: 35:52

Absolutely not, absolutely not. I think a traditional publisher would have to offer me a lot for me to decide to go that way. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:00

At this point and that's so interesting because two years ago you were, I would, I don't know, I would say, were you leaning more towards traditional, like you were 60, 40.

Speaker 2: 36:12

You know it's kind of funny. I was leaning that way for the reason that I ultimately didn't like it. I wanted their input on direction really more than anything. Also, it's nice to get that validation right but, but, yeah, I wanted their input. I wanted to know, like, what direction they wanted me to go in terms of genre, in terms of age category, all of that stuff, when, like, really I want to control those things and I think I just needed to learn that and I think that's interesting too if we were to dig underneath that, like why did you feel like you wanted that?

Speaker 1: 36:46

and maybe does it come down to fear and like inexperience a little, I think so yeah lack ofack of confidence, which is very interesting because it's like do we want that driving decisions for us?

Speaker 1: 36:58

No, right. So it's, of course, the thing we learn in hindsight we can't judge younger Stephanie from two years ago but I think it's so helpful, probably, for listeners to be like, oh my God, that's like maybe that's why I'm doing what I'm doing too. If it were me, I try not to let fear drive the bus right. It happens sometimes, but I just love that you came around to a reason that actually is more in line with, like, what you value, what you love, and it's letting you. You know, like you said, control the things. Control is not a bad word, it's a great word.

Speaker 1: 37:29

It's a great word, I agree, yeah, so I think that's very cool. And then is there anything like if we were to say what are you most excited about, aside from your book actually being in the world? Is there anything that you've just been like imagining since you started writing this story?

Speaker 2: 37:44

Yeah, yeah, I want readers to love my story too, yeah. So obviously, like, not everyone will. There will be some people who love it and some people who hate it, and plenty of people in the middle, but I just can't wait for, like, someone else who I don't know to love this story as much as I do.

Speaker 1: 38:04

Yeah, I think that's so relatable. Like, as authors, we just want a stranger on the internet to buy our book and love it, and it's like just that one person makes such a big difference. Right, really does, yeah, yeah. So the other thing I wanted to talk about because it's so cute to me is that your dad also writes books, and you posted the cutest picture on your Instagram of you holding your dad's book and him holding your book. Yeah, I wanna talk a little bit about like what is it like to share your book with him? And like how has that experience been?

Speaker 2: 38:34

It just means so much to me Like I've been waiting since I started seriously writing this as a book so what? Like four years to give him that dedication, because I have wanted to write books since I was a little kid probably around third grade and I watched him do it Like I watched him live his dream and now just like to be here too. It just means so much and he was such a good example for me. So sharing that with him meant so much to me and like it's really nice because he's like really proud of me. I love that and I don't know I don't know if that feels like weird for me to say, but he just really is. I love like sharing the special steps in the journey with him. I don't know, it's just, it's very special.

Speaker 1: 39:20

It's very special, yeah, and it's so funny because listeners won't know this, but whenever I'm texting you, I'm like what did your dad say? What did your dad say? Yeah, it is so special. And like I get all the feels when you share his messages with me and it's just so very cute. And did you say he's self-published as well?

Speaker 2: 39:42

Yeah, I want to say, and like I might get this number wrong, so sorry dad, but I think he has 31 self-published books. Oh my God, that's amazing. He's, he's been amazingly successful and, like he might not tell you that because it's hard to recognize our own success, right, he's had so many fans that absolutely love his work. He's made amazing sales and his books. He stopped advertising a few years ago now but they still sell every single day. So like it's amazing.

Speaker 2: 40:06

Yeah, he's made a legacy for himself, and I'm just hoping that I can find my readers that love my books that much too.

Speaker 1: 40:13

Yeah, and wouldn't it be so cool if one of your kids became a writer and then they're like in this long chain of people who write books. That'd be so cool.

Speaker 2: 40:21

Yeah, charlie, my two and a half year old. He already just loves to read, so I'm hopeful.

Speaker 1: 40:26

And he's literally lived through like this whole two and a half years with you, so he knows all about the self-publishing and getting agents and breaking up with agents and all that. But that is so cool. I'm so excited for the world to meet your characters and just to like watch everything you're going to do Because, again, at the time of recording this, her book is not out when we're recording, but the day it goes live. It's like the publish day. So it's going to be so, so fun to watch it and thank you for being vulnerable and sharing all this stuff with us. I think it's going to make a big difference for other people.

Speaker 2: 40:59

Yeah, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity.

Speaker 1: 41:02

Yeah, and listeners will have to go. Let Stephanie know how you felt about this episode. If you can relate, we will post her link to social media and her website and stuff like that in the show notes. But any last parting words of wisdom or encouragement, stephanie.

Speaker 2: 41:21

Yeah, I think I said the same thing last time, which is kind of funny. But what I really want to tell people is don't give up, no matter what curveballs come your way. Like you don't necessarily know like what direction you're going to end up choosing or what's going to end up being best for you, and what seems like a bad thing at one point might actually be the best thing in the world. So like it's a tough mental game being a writer, but just keep going and don't give up.

Speaker 1: 41:44

Yeah, and I think to add on that it's like sometimes it's not even about you or your story, it's just about the context of the world, or, like that agent in particular, or you know, there's so many things that we can't control, and so it's like, you know, it is a tough mental game. We have to be in it for the long haul and we have to believe in our stories and things like that. And yeah, just thinking back to that first episode we recorded, I remember you were telling everyone, like when we first started working together, you had to throw out 40,000 words. Yes. So like when we first started working together, you had to throw out 40,000 words. Yes. So like this isn't your first hurdle. It's like you've had hurdles and now you've had different hurdles and now you're finally getting to that publish. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:21

And it's so funny because every single hurdle I feel like it's the end of the world or like the worst thing that could happen, and it always ends up to be a great thing. So yeah it's just amazing, how that happens.

Speaker 1: 42:32

And it always ends up to be a great thing. So it's just amazing how that happens. Yeah, it is amazing. I feel like that's a good summary of life, right? Yeah, it always makes us stronger, but yeah, so I love that. So you heard it first, or actually you heard it twice now from Stephanie. You heard it from Stephanie don't give up, keep pursuing your dreams, and I think that's a great way to end the episode. So thank you again for being here, Stephanie, and I can't wait to see what's going to happen with your book. Thanks so much.

Speaker 1: 42:57

So that's it for today's episode. As always, thank you so much for tuning in and for showing your support. If you want to check out any of the links I mentioned in this episode, you can find them in the show notes listed in the description of each episode inside your podcast player or at savannahgilbocom forward slash podcast. If you're an Apple user, I'd really appreciate it if you took a few seconds to leave a rating and a review. Your ratings and reviews tell Apple that this is a podcast that's worth listening to and, in turn, your reviews will help this podcast get in front of more fiction writers just like you. And while you're there, go ahead and hit that follow button, because there's going to be another brand new episode next week, full of actionable tips, tools and strategies to help you become a better writer. So I'll see you next week and until then, happy writing.