Speaker 1: 0:43

Human beings want to hear the stories of other human beings. I am the biggest eavesdropper in a restaurant. I want to hear what's going on at the table next to me. I want to be in on that conversation, and that's exactly what podcasts do. Did you wake up one morning out of high school and you're like I'm going to be an author? Boom, that was it, and your career was wonderful and you're a New York Times bestseller? No, most likely, the answer is no. So what is it that you did before you became an author?

Speaker 2: 1:14

Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy podcast. My name is Savannah Gilbo and I'm here to help you write a story that works. I wanna prove to you that writing a novel doesn't have to be overwhelming, so each week, I'll bring you a brand new episode with simple, actionable and step-by-step strategies that you can implement in your writing right away. So whether you're brand new to writing or more of a seasoned author looking to improve your craft, this podcast is for you. So pick up a pen and let's get started. In today's episode, we're going to talk about how to pitch yourself to podcasts, and if you're not in the marketing headspace or if you haven't finished your draft just yet, I'd still love for you to listen to the episode and maybe think of this as something you can put on your quote-unquote maybe someday list. But also, my guests and I talk specifically about how you can pitch podcasts even if you don't have a book finished or published just yet.

Speaker 2: 2:07

And speaking of my guest, her name is Michelle Glogovac and she is the podcast matchmaker. Yes, that's actually what she calls herself and it's a very fitting description of what she does and what she's all about, which I'm sure you'll see shortly. She's also a podcast publicist, the author of the how to Get on Podcast book and the host of the award-winning podcast called my Simplified Life. Michelle works with entrepreneurs, authors and experts to hone their storytelling abilities, grow their businesses and elevate themselves as thought leaders and yes, that totally includes fiction writers as well. So in this episode, we're going to talk about things like what exactly is a podcast book tour, and when should writers start thinking of pitching themselves to podcasts or going on a podcast book tour, and when should writers start thinking of pitching themselves to podcasts or going on a podcast book tour?

Speaker 2: 2:50

We're also going to cover a lot of ideas for topics you can pitch to podcasts and spoiler alert, it's not just about your book Plus. We're going to talk about how to pitch a podcast, some mistakes to avoid and how to repurpose your interviews into greater marketing content to expand your author brand. It's another juicy episode and I think this topic is so much fun, so let's just go ahead and dive into the episode, shall we? Here is my conversation with Michelle Glogovac. That's all about pitching podcasts and going on podcast book tours. Hi, michelle, welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy podcast. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Speaker 1: 3:27

Hi, savannah, I'm so excited to be talking to you. I just I love it. You're so smiley and happy and you just it makes me happy to be here.

Speaker 2: 3:34

Yeah, what you guys, what you listeners don't know, is that for like minutes before we recorded, michelle and I are all smiles and we're all giggles and we love talking. So this is going to be a fun interview. I've already introduced you in the intro, but I would love if you could tell my listeners who you are and what you do in your own words.

Speaker 1: 3:51

Thank you. I am Michelle Gluckovac. I am the podcast matchmaker it is something that I call myself and I am the CEO and founder of the MLG Collective and author of how to Get on Podcasts and the host of the my Simplified Life podcast. So really I do. Everything that has to do with podcasts is I live and breathe them.

Speaker 1: 4:11

I spent 18 years in corporate aviation selling jet fuel and when I was laid off with two tiny humans at home, I decided I wanted to do something that would better the world for them. And that's when I discovered podcasts and the two do actually coexist that I had a corporate career in which everything was relationship-based. I wasn't in love. I think jets are cool, but I wasn't in love with jet fuel. And now I'm in an industry where it's all about relationships, about my relationship with my clients, my relationships with podcast hosts and bringing the two together. So that because I've gotten that question a lot of how do you relate 18 years in aviation to now a business and a career in podcasting? And that is how the two come together.

Speaker 2: 4:55

That's so funny and sometimes the relation is like well, at least I learned what I didn't want to do and now I'm. So I feel like a lot of people can relate to you know, maybe there's not a direct correlation, but at least it got me here. That's all that matters. Yes, and so it sounds like you're a busy lady. You do a lot of stuff. A lot of it revolves around podcasting and talking to others and connections and things like that, and specifically today we're going to talk about kind of what kind of what you do as a matchmaker. You encourage people to go on podcast book tours, which might sound cool to some people, might sound intimidating to others. But what is a podcast book tour?

Speaker 1: 5:33

A podcast book tour is for authors to go on many different podcasts to reach their ideal readers and to share not necessarily all about their books, but about themselves.

Speaker 1: 5:44

It allows us, as listeners and readers, to get to know the author as a person, to find out what might be real and not fiction in their books and to simply fall in love with that person. Because I believe that every author is, to me, a celebrity and yet they're not showing up on our TV screens so we don't recognize them when we're walking down the street. And with a podcast, we actually get to hear their voice, and I think that once you would listen to an author actually speak, then you can hear them talking to you in the book as well, which is an amazing gift on top of getting to know them as human beings and becoming even better fans. And once we fall in love with the person, we then want to go buy their book, their product, their service. So that's why I encourage everyone to show up and share of themselves and not try to hawk their book per se.

Speaker 2: 6:35

Yes, which is, I think, a lot of what writers think going on podcasts is.

Speaker 2: 6:39

It's like, how do I talk about my book and make it sound professional and all the things. But I love what you just said because it's more about, like you know, I'm going to flip this around for listeners. So think about everything that Michelle just said in relation to your favorite author. Like, wouldn't you love to hear your favorite author or an author you're newly interested in, you know, going on a podcast talking about where they got their ideas or how they write, or what this book means to them, or like what they do on their Saturdays, like anything or what they stand for, right, anything that gets to know the person better. I think you would love to hear that as a listener, as a fan of someone's book. Now we'll flip it back around, so that could be you right, and a lot of authors kind of I don't feel like they see the connection between how can I be as interesting or as special or as whatever as that published author? Do you have any words of wisdom for those that are thinking?

Speaker 1: 7:28

that? Yeah, because it's not just authors, it's like basically every human being, all of my clients. I will get that whole. I have nothing to share. Nobody wants to hear my story, and yet we do. Human beings want to hear the stories of other human beings. I am the biggest eavesdropper in a restaurant. I want to hear what's going on at the table next to me. I want to be in on that conversation, and that's exactly what podcasts do.

Speaker 1: 7:54

Did you wake up one morning out of high school and you're like I'm going to be an author? Boom, that was it. And your career was wonderful and you're a New York Times bestseller? No, most likely, the answer is no. So what is it that you did before you became an author? Were you always writing? Were you like me and you didn't publish your first book until you were 42? What did you do those previous 42 years? You know what was that like.

Speaker 1: 8:19

What was your journey to becoming a published author? What was your publishing journey like? What career have you had? You know? Were you always a writer? Did you journal? Like? What's your writing ritual? I love to know, do you light a candle and you know, every morning that is what I do or are you out in the garden and you're getting inspiration from outside. There are all of these different stories that nobody has the same story and even if you think your story is similar to someone else's, you're going to share it in a unique way that nobody else can. You know somebody else. Yeah, there are others who haven't published a book until they were in their 40s, but their path looks different from mine and the way we approach it is different and the way we share that story is different, and that's why everybody should be able to share their story on a podcast, because it is unique, because each of us are unique.

Speaker 2: 9:10

Yeah, and I think that's so true. And it's also, you know, people, writers always want to know, like, how do we find our ideal readers, how do we get connected with them? This is such a great way to build that connection and to start getting people on your email list and, you know, also build your own confidence. Because I will say, as someone who now runs a podcast, when I first started, like I'm a huge introvert. Listeners may not know this, I've probably said it a few times, but there was never a world where I thought I would ever have a podcast or guest on podcast, whatever. For all the people out there. It gets easier when you realize it's about the connection and it's about the person on the other side more than it's about you. I think that's when it's like a really powerful tool. It's going to get you the things that you want. It's going to give you that connection that a lot of us don't have in this post-COVID world anymore, right?

Speaker 1: 9:58

And help you sell books.

Speaker 1: 10:00

Yes, exactly, and I always say it's funny, I did my sub stack this week and it was it's about you but it's not about you, because deck this week and it was it's about you but it's not about you, because you know your pitch isn't supposed to be about you. The interview, yeah, you're sharing of yourself, but it's not about what you sell or what you do. It's about your story and how you can help other people, and so that's really what every podcast interview should be about, and I love that you said it. Can, you know, grow your community and find your readers, and you know, you can give them a free chapter, you can give them book club questions, you can give them a playlist, something that entices them to come and follow you and learn more from you, while also sharing of yourself. I just think it's so cool to be able to find these facts about authors and you know, I interviewed Genevieve Wheeler, the author of Adelaide, and found out that all of the tattoos that Adelaide has she has, and I was like that is so cool.

Speaker 2: 10:57

Where else are you going to get that information? Yeah, little Easter eggs, that's so fun and it's crazy. Like the things that you know will connect you to your future readers or you as a reader to your favorite authors could be anything like that. It could be the tattoos, and I get tattoos too. Like, personally I don't, but you know you might be saying that as a listener For me. I talk about my dogs a lot and I get a lot of dog lovers who are like I love my dogs as much as you love your dogs, right? So there's so many things. And it could even be for Michelle, like someone contacts her saying I have a history in jet fuel too. Right, it could be the most random part of your history, but it's building connection.

Speaker 1: 11:34

I actually have a pitch in my inbox that says for 25 years I flew helicopters and so I took this much jet fuel and if we worked together you would have made this much. That's so funny. Yes, I love that. You also mentioned you're, you know, finding these ideal readers, and I think it's important for authors to know that you don't have to only pitch yourself to literary podcasts. You should be going after the ones where your ideal readers are listening. So if you have a beach read where all of those women where are they listening? Are they moms? Are they listening to the mom podcast? And that's how you're going to branch out even more versus, oh, all the authors go on this one podcast you don't have, not all those authors. The listeners aren't going to be buying your book. So find out where your readers are and go after those podcasts.

Speaker 2: 12:23

And a good place to start is like what do you listen to? Because usually I find that writers tend to write the kind of books they read and their ideal readers, kind of a version of themselves. So you know, it's always a great exercise to start where you are and then see what you branch out into from there.

Speaker 1: 12:39

Yeah, I love that and it's the rabbit hole that we all love. You know, when you search on Apple and more of this that you might like.

Speaker 2: 12:46

I know that gets me every time. I'm like subscribe, subscribe or follow now, right. So when, if I'm an author and let's say I'm in my first draft and I'm just kind of, you know, midway through it, when should I start thinking about going on a podcast book tour?

Speaker 1: 13:08

Now.

Speaker 1: 13:08

It helps build your author brand.

Speaker 1: 13:09

So, before your book is even out there, you can start building your personal brand by sharing of yourself and you can share that.

Speaker 1: 13:12

You know, yeah, I'm working on this novel and this is what I'm going through right now, while still sharing yourself, because you're building that community, you're building that audience, your email list, and that's all of the things that you're going to need when you do publish that book, because you're building that audience, your email list, and that's all of the things that you're going to need when you do publish that book, because you need someone to sell it to. And if these people have been following you and listening to you already for months, years, they're going to be excited that this book has now come to life and want to buy it. So start early, not simply, oh, I've got the book coming out tomorrow, I need to get on a podcast. No, you should be doing this months, years in advance to build that following. It's just a great tool to build your community and your followers and your audience. And then you can continue through once the book launches and after the book launches, because there's always more.

Speaker 2: 13:59

Yeah, and I love that you said that, because it's also about building confidence too. So the first like I don't know three to five podcasts that you go on, you're going to be nervous. Maybe you're nervous for all of them, but especially those first few right. And then it's like you know, you figure out, kind of the lay of the land, how this stuff works. You're going to build the confidence over time so it's eventually going to feel fun and easy. And then you know, on the flip side of this conversation, as a podcast host, like you said, it's not great to wait until the last minute. And I receive a lot of pitches in the last minute where it's like it's the 1st of May and my book's going out on the 15th, can I come on your show? And I'm like no, because we record in advance. So I like that you're saying start in advance, because that's a logistical thing we need to think about as people pitching to podcasts is that the ones you pitch might be recording three, six months in advance.

Speaker 1: 14:50

Yeah, we got a yes for a client that it's a year and a half in advance, which is absolutely insane, but apparently it's happening. So you know, don't pitch right as your book is coming out. You should pitch well in advance and I always start with clients at least three to four months in advance, because it takes time to pitch, to follow up, to then get the recording and you know when is the calendar going to be open. We're all. We all have full-time jobs. You know there's families, like we have spring break next week, so that's a week that I'm not recording and that affects my calendar, which can affect the guest and what they're looking to get out of or have it go live.

Speaker 1: 15:30

And then a lot of times we're building these content calendars where we're batching and we have all of our shows are laid out, the episodes are already slated. We know what's going live when For me, it's at least a month in advance, are already slated. We know what's going live when, for me, it's at least a month in advance. So, yeah, if you're contacting me now for, like you said, two weeks from now, no, I'm not even recording next week, let alone I already have episodes that are done for two weeks from now. So plan ahead, because we have full-time jobs and other things that we're doing.

Speaker 2: 16:01

Yeah, and I also think from the host perspective sometimes it can make those requests a more easy. No, Like when you know I don't have room on May 15th or whatever. Sometimes you might go back to the guest and say, well, what about this? But if their book's coming out on the 15th, usually that's when they want it. So sometimes the lack of preparation can just make it more of an easy. No. It's kind of the same thing we say with pitching agents or querying agents. Right, the lack of preparation or the not doing your due diligence or doing it early enough in the process, whatever, can result in one of those immediate rejections. The same thing's kind of true with podcasts.

Speaker 1: 16:39

I love that you mentioned that, because when it came time for me to query agents, I was like this is easy, this is literally what I do in pitching. I do my research, I find out things about the host and then that's how I pitch them, and I use that, actually, in my query process. There was one agent that I found out. She wrote in college and I wrote too I was the coxswain and so I included that in my query letter. She goes where did you find that? On the internet? I just dug deep and I found that fact. So you know, being able to do your homework in that sense too, it builds that connection and that personalization.

Speaker 2: 17:15

Yeah, and I don't know if we want to get too deep into this, but I'm just thinking of common mistakes. It's kind of flagging in my brain right now because the lack of personalization common mistakes. It's kind of flagging in my brain right now because the lack of personalization and like not doing some of that homework is going to probably result in an immediate rejection too, and Michelle and I have talked offline about how we each get pitches for our individual podcasts that are just totally irrelevant, that are copy and paste from other people. So there's a lot that you can do wrong and there's a lot that you can do right. And hopefully you know the tips that Michelle has a lot of great tips on her website, which we'll share, and in her book, so we'll put the links to that. But hopefully, if you're thinking of pitching podcasts, you'll do the homework and, you know, avoid being in that no pile.

Speaker 1: 17:58

Yes, and it's simple Like use the host name, start right there, and you're already a step ahead of some.

Speaker 2: 18:04

Yeah, and it's so. I mean it's crazy. It's just the same for authors out there. It's the same thing we read about when it comes to querying. Really, now that I'm thinking about this more because it's like don't you know, I got a pitch to their that said hello, sir. And I'm like I'm clearly not a sir. If you've listened, you know they're just simple, simple things that we can avoid to make our pitches stand out.

Speaker 1: 18:25

Yes, please just listen to an episode or two. Start from there.

Speaker 2: 18:30

Yeah, and so we talked a little bit about, like, what topics authors could pitch. Is there anything more you want to dig into there? Like, if I'm that person who's halfway through my draft and I'm like I don't know what I could pitch to a podcast, you know how would you start even thinking about that?

Speaker 1: 18:48

I ask a lot of questions within the book that you can start asking yourself and I break down the different types of topics that you can speak on and I also relate them to, like different friend types, so you can talk about the skills that you have. What is it that you actually do besides writing or as a writer? What is it that makes you unique in those skills? What has your personal journey been like that you are willing to share? You always have to be willing to share this. You know whatever that story is, so be prepared for that. But you know what was growing up like and how did that lead you to where you are today. What's your career been like? What pivots did you take along the way? These are all great ones.

Speaker 1: 19:30

Do you have a method or framework that is unique to you, like that goes along with your writing ritual? What is it that makes you different in how you approach writing? Do you outline everything? Do you have like a room with a bunch of post-its everywhere that helps you guide through? You know your novel writing. How is it that you do that?

Speaker 1: 19:50

And these are all different topics that you can use and I share with you. You know your personal journeys, like your childhood friend that you've known since kindergarten and they know everything and you can pick up the phone and that's just it. Versus you've got your work friends, you have your happy hour crew that's always there for you. All of these different types of friends and skills and journeys and stories are all different topics that you can pitch yourself on, because they all allow us to get to know you. And then you can also speak on your book, even if it's not fully done and drafted and published. Share it with us. What is it you're working on that is coming to fruition, because we all want to know, we're curious about it. So all of those different types of things are topics.

Speaker 2: 20:36

Yeah, and it's so interesting because I have past clients and students come on the podcast whenever they hit a milestone. So that could be like finishing an outline, finishing a first draft, it could be querying your first five agents, it could be publishing a book, it could be whatever. There's like these milestones that I think we need to celebrate more, and the reason I'm saying this is because I hear from a lot of listeners. I love hearing the journey of like getting to these little, smaller milestones right.

Speaker 2: 21:05

A lot of authors will go on podcasts and they'll just be like, yeah, I wrote my book and then now it's published and I'm going on a tour and it's publicity right, and it sounds very glamorous. But I think a lot of them don't talk about kind of the messiness or you know, the speed bumps or hiccups, and I think that allows our future readers to see themselves in us and in our journey, because we all make mistakes, we all struggle to get what we want, sometimes right. So I think the point is a lot of the listeners, a lot of writers, have more interesting things to share than they probably realize.

Speaker 1: 21:37

Absolutely, I totally agree. I couldn't agree more and I think that's why you know, even if you ask yourself these questions, you write down the answers. It doesn't hurt to bounce them off your partner, your best friend, to say look, I'm working on some topics that I can speak on, and you know this part of my story. Do you think that's interesting and what part stands out to you? And get that feedback from someone who knows about you. Because I also find that oftentimes we will forget to mention key points in an interview, that if we're not prompted by a Post-it or by the host, because the host just happens to know that that particular detail, then we might forget it.

Speaker 1: 22:17

I had a client who for 10 years in her corporate career could not use the word change. And yet today she owns her own business and she has the change method and she has the change framework, and I was like why is everything change everything? She goes well. For 10 years I couldn't use the word change, wow. And I thought, well, that's really fascinating. And so I interviewed her on my show and she didn't mention it until I prompted her to say why do you say everything's changed? I go now you have to put that on a Post-it and stick it on your monitor so you remember to mention this, because it really is the story of how you have gotten to do what you're doing today.

Speaker 2: 22:55

Yeah, and you do talk about that in the book, like creating topics of what you can speak on, but also little reminders of things you can speak on. So I love that thought of having like a cheat sheet for yourself when you go on podcasts. But I'm also thinking it's so funny because you said about friends and people telling you things that make you interesting. I think that's so great. And I'm thinking of this writer I work with. Her name's Jennifer Lauer, and I know you're listening. So hello, jennifer. She was on a past episode of the podcast that we'll link to in the show notes.

Speaker 2: 23:24

But she did this really cool thing where, when her book, she self-published her book and she created this like box of stuff that you could get. If you were an early reader, you would get this box and it was really special and it created a lot of connection and things like that. And I always tell her I'm like do you know how many authors would love to see like a behind the scenes of how you, why you chose certain things, who you reached out to, whatever? And you know she's like well, maybe you know, maybe, maybe someday I'll teach that. I'm like no, that's really cool. So my public reminder to you, jennifer yes, Jennifer, we love book boxes.

Speaker 1: 24:01

I'm a huge fan of seeing them and then seeing them get like unboxed on Instagram and stuff. And if you get a book box, this is your reminder everybody show it on Instagram please, because those of us who send those out really, really want you to show them off.

Speaker 2: 24:16

Yeah, and I saw you, you did the collaboration with the pie lady.

Speaker 2: 24:19

Right, I did, yes, I did Jennifer, and I was telling her not to make this Jennifer, and I was telling her not to make this about Jennifer, but I was telling her. I'm like, you did so many cool things when your book launched that, like you know, I think she's a little hesitant to maybe share what she did publicly, not because she wants to keep secrets or anything, but more because it's like, who am I to share this? Like, I didn't have these, like thousands and thousands of books sold because of that, like, but there are so many writers that want the results that she got and it's like a way of doing it in a, you know, smaller, more accessible way that I think is so cool. So I use her example because there's a lot of people out there that have similar things. Like Michelle said, maybe you have a process for outlining that could help people, or maybe you I don't know, it could be totally unrelated Like, maybe you've cracked the code on how to keep your house under control so that you can write, right, I mean right?

Speaker 1: 25:14

Yes, didn't know. Yeah, you heard Instagram. It's the truth. You know, even with the pie, I had another author reach out to me and say so, you did the pie. I was thinking about the pie, but I don't know if I want to do the pie. Like, what do you think about the pie? Yeah, connect with others and let them know. Did it work for you? Did you enjoy the process? These are great topics that you can talk on and people want to hear, because we love to hear what was your experience. You know, it's that human to human connection.

Speaker 2: 25:46

And it could be a worthwhile exercise to brainstorm from a reader's perspective. You know, like kind of zoom out of yourself for a second and say, from a reader's perspective, what would I die to know of an author Like, what would I want to hear about? Just list things down. Don't judge what you write down and then say, okay, is there anything on this list I could do? You know?

Speaker 1: 26:05

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:06

So I don't know, sometimes when we take ourselves out of the equation, it makes it a little easier and then we can kind of reframe it and come back. But yeah, we could probably list examples for years. So let's say we're like this is a great idea, I want to do this, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it sooner than later.

Speaker 1: 26:22

How do we start the process, like how do we actually pitch and do all the things? And I know I read detail, so I say start with a branded media kit and it can just be a one pager when you have your book and everything, then you can expand on it but a one page that has your name, your bio, your headshot, all of your topics that you can speak on and then all of the places you've already been featured interviews, that kind of thing. If you haven't, don't worry about it. You just need that one to get under your belt and chances are that you have somewhere on the internet a video or audio of yourself that you can use as an example. Then look at the podcast that you're listening to that you know you could contribute something valuable to their audience. Look at the podcast that you're listening to that you know you could contribute something valuable to their audience. And you can go on Instagram and find the contact information, or go to the website to find the contact information. If it's there in public, then you're allowed to use it. So that is your reminder that it's okay to use that contact button and then personalize your pitch. What have you listened to? First of all, of the show that resonated with you and it's not the most recent episode, because that's lazy Go down and really listen to one and share that with the host. What resonated with you, what value did you get out of it and what value do you feel you can bring to the audience so that they know you're not just there to hawk yourself, you're not the salesperson, you're not slimy. You want to truly share something of yourself with the audience and then go into the pitch of you know, here a two-sentence bio. That part can always stay the same, that can be the copy and paste, because you're not changing as a person and then put in two or three of the topics that you've created Not all of them, because that's in your media kit, but the ones that really apply to the show that you're pitching to and then let them know where you've been featured, where they can find you, and link to everything hyperlink so that you do not have to send the host out to Google your name, because that's an automatic.

Speaker 1: 28:20

No, don't give them homework. Supply them with everything and attach your media kit or put your media kit in a Google Drive. I've heard some people don't want to get attachments or are afraid of sending them. So link to that as well and then send it to the host. Give them two or three weeks to look it over and then gently follow up. Follow up to the initial email you sent, so that you're not sending them on a wild goose chase of I don't know what email you did send me. I think I saw it and now I gotta go search for it and Gmail's not letting me search for it. Just reply to that sent email and then, two or three weeks later, follow up to that sent email and then, two or three weeks later, follow up to that email again and say it's your last time and don't make it something.

Speaker 1: 29:00

I've gotten pitches where the initial email gives me some of the information and then the second one's like and then to follow up they've also been featured here and here and here and then the third one and it's a constant more information. Just put it in the initial email. Don't follow up with like teasers of and then there was more. Just do it the first time, you know, please, and give time. Be gentle in your persistent follow-up, because we're not saving lives, we are pitching to podcasts, so you know and be polite. Please be polite. Use the host name. Get their show name right, small things that are so simple and yet so often overlooked.

Speaker 2: 29:41

Yeah, and I have three things to say about this. So number one if you hear Media Kit and you're like, ah, it sounds scary, there are free templates in Canva, you can Google Media Kit templates and just don't make it a big deal. It's just a thing to create to communicate. So progress, not perfection, on that. The other thing is following up is totally okay.

Speaker 2: 30:00

Like Michelle said, we're all busy humans. I appreciate a follow-up. I know that I'm not the best with my inbox, so I need the follow-ups. You're not rude if you follow up, as long as you give it enough time, like Michelle said, two to three weeks. The third thing is if you were listeners, were to pitch a podcast with all the things Michelle just said, that makes it an easy, yes, so you know, we said earlier, yeah, everyone's busy and things like that. But also hosts want to find great guests. So if you make it easy and you show that you're a relevant relevant to them and you have something to share with their audience and, like Michelle said, making it about what you can offer versus hey, here's my book, $5.99, you can get your copy right Then it is a way easier, yes, and it becomes a win-win. So I like to always think about it like how can I make this a win-win, how can I make it feel like something the host is excited to do too? And it kind of all comes with that personalization and homework.

Speaker 1: 30:57

And I want to remind everyone too, especially if you already have a book, don't pitch your book, because the host isn't interviewing the book, they're interviewing you, the person, and so often I get pitches of you know, this new book is out like super, but is the author going to talk to me or is the book going to talk to me? You know who am I having the conversation with, so remember not to simply pitch your book. Yes, you can include your book and what it's about, but this is about you, yeah, and that's a great point.

Speaker 2: 31:26

I get those pitches too where it's like this is a. You know, I get all kinds of crazy pitches, but I do get the one where it's like this book is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And now I'm going to use that in my head where I'm like hearing your voice. Am I talking to the book or am I talking to the author? But it's you know. There's so many things I'm sure we could dig into about pitches gone wrong, you know, and it all comes down to just knowing who you're pitching, why you're pitching and then how you can get that win-win scenario.

Speaker 1: 31:51

Yes.

Speaker 2: 31:52

So let's say let's like fast forward and say we've done interviews. I'm going to assume you correct me if I'm wrong we want some, probably before the book comes out. I mean a lot, right, as many as we can before the book comes out, some during the week it comes out and you can even do it after, right. Yes, like this thing you can always do to keep the pipeline full and build your audience and all that. But you also have a lot of great resources and information on how to repurpose interviews once you've done them. Do you want to talk about that a little?

Speaker 1: 32:20

Yeah, repurposing your interviews is the way you're going to thank your host. So the entire process of podcast pitching. I compare to a dinner party where you've been invited to someone's home, which is their show. You're going to show up with a gift, like a freebie that would be flowers or wine or candle and you're going to show up with a gift like a freebie that would be flowers or wine or candle and you're going to engage with the host as a person who wants to be there. So your phone's turned off, you're not distracted, you're having conversation. And then what happens after the dinner party is over? Do you send pictures? Do you send a handwritten thank you card? Well, when it's a podcast, you are going to thank the host by sharing that interview, not just in your stories, for 24 hours. That is lazy and it goes up and it's gone. You're going to create posts in your feed, whether it's with your headshot and the cover art, or you're going to pull quotes that you said in the transcript and promote those and tag the host. You're going to put a blog post that are similar to show notes, embed the media player, put it on your Spotify playlist. You know, tweet about it, put it on threads, put it on LinkedIn and tag the host in all of these places because you're thanking them. You're promoting this episode. You're also letting your audience know where they can find you. You're letting the audience know whether it's new followers, old followers, that you're being interviewed, and so you're kind of a big deal. You're that thought leader in your space, the expert on whatever it is, and so they're going to look at you in a different light as well. You know you've been featured, you've been invited on this podcast, so maybe I need to listen up a little bit more to what you're saying and it doesn't have to be a look at me. Look at me. Just think of it as your way of thanking the host and all of the rest will fall into place.

Speaker 1: 34:06

But you have to share this, because I so often get asked what's the ROI on my podcast interview. I don't know. Did you share it? No? Well then, nothing. That is your ROI, because it has to be. That ripple effect of the host is sharing it with their audience. You now share it with your audience. Now your audiences are interacting. They're getting new followers, you're getting new followers, and the pond just begins to grow bigger and bigger because you're both reaching new people, so it has to be a give and take just like the win-win that you said earlier for both sides. So you need to share the interviews and it's a great way to create content for all of your social media accounts, because I know we all dread it. And yet one podcast interview. You can pull at least three quotes from.

Speaker 2: 34:53

Yeah, yes, and it's true. Even if, like you, let's say you're, you're brand new to all this and you have a small audience, that's okay, you know it's it's still a great thing to do for all the reasons Michelle listed, but also it's practice for future. You, when you have a bigger audience and you know you can I don't know it's just a great habit to get into and it's a great way of thinking about what you're doing by showing up on a podcast. The other thing I want to touch on, because the words stood out to me when you said now you're an expert and you're a thought leader and all that, I could feel some of the listeners being like I don't know if that's me Right and I I heard this thing Amy Porterfield talks about having the 10% edge and I think that's true for us in whatever we're talking about.

Speaker 2: 35:38

So, for example this is a very random example I cook my dog's homemade food. I've done it for my oldest one's four, so I've done it for at least four years. That means I have at least a 10% edge on cooking dog food to someone who has never done it Right. So, like they like that. I know it's a very strange example, but in theory somebody could learn something from me just because I've been doing it for four years and I've made mistakes right. So it doesn't have to be like you're an expert author, it's just you have whatever. That 10% edge is over potentially, who's listening?

Speaker 1: 36:14

That's a great example. I love that, thank you. I'm going to use that because I refer to Amy in when I speak about what you can give as your freebie, because she I remember her standing out to me saying whatever you give for free, give a lot of it, because it'll make people walk away saying, if I get that for free, imagine what I get when I pay her.

Speaker 2: 36:33

Right, and the very same is true for books, right. So you know, give a free chapter, give a free whatever, a free novella, ebook, right, it could be literally anything. I always use this example One of the writers I work with. She had a little mini like ebook cookbook, because in her story the female protagonist was a chef and she baked and all this stuff and like that's so cute you can actually read about. So it could literally be anything. But yeah, it's like leave them with that feeling of oh my gosh, this is so cool. Imagine what I can get from this person's book or being in their world.

Speaker 1: 37:10

I love that, Amy. Listen, we're quoting Amy left and right.

Speaker 2: 37:14

We love Amy Porterfield, so okay, so all of that's great and I'm going to link to all your resources. So, because I know there's going to be people out there that are kind of buzzing about this. They're like let me get some templates, let me get some freebies. You have a lot of great stuff on your website. You have a lot of great stuff in your book, which I have it's, and I'm such a fan of anything else to add, like parting, words of wisdom or anything that's just come up.

Speaker 1: 37:39

You know, I think put yourself out there and it will be scary at first, and yet, at the same time, I feel like you kind of have a duty to do it, because if you share of yourself and someone who's listening needs to hear it to get through whatever they're getting through then you have that opportunity to change a life with your story, with your words. And if every single one of us could do that in a lifetime of by simply sharing our story we get to help someone else, then I think we've done our job in this lifetime. So be willing to share your story, to show up, and you're going to find the rewards in doing so that'll be so immense on the back end. But go out there and share of yourself because we want to get to know you. I promise you, each and every one of us wants to get to hear your voice, not only read your words, but get to know you as a person.

Speaker 2: 38:31

Yeah, I think that's amazing. We'll just go ahead and end there. So thank you, Michelle, for coming on the show today. Let listeners know where we can find you and again, we'll link to all of it in the show notes, but go ahead and tell them a couple of places to find you.

Speaker 1: 38:44

Thank you. My company website is themlgcollectivecom, my personal website's michelleglogovaccom, and I'm on Instagram michelleglogovac. All of the places and the book how to Get on Podcasts and the podcast my Simplified Life Awesome.

Speaker 2: 39:00

So we'll link to all that and if you guys like freebies, you're going to love what Michelle has on her website. So I know there's some people that really love the freebies and the checklist and the templates and all that, Go look at Michelle's website. But thank you again so much, Michelle. We'll definitely have to have you back someday because I know this is a bigger topic we could go very deep into. But thank you so much and I'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 1: 39:20

Thank you so much, I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 2: 39:25

So that's it for today's episode. Thank you so much for tuning in and for showing your support. If you're an Apple user, I'd really appreciate it if you took a few seconds to leave a rating and a review. Your ratings and reviews tell Apple that this is a podcast that's worth listening to and, in turn, your reviews will help get this podcast in front of more fiction writers just like you. As always, I'll be back next week with a brand new episode full of actionable tips, tools and strategies to help you become a better writer and craft a story you're proud of. Until then, happy writing.